"Personally I don't want a 'C' card that will 'get me by'! I don't want to have to slide my card across the counter so no one else will see it."
That's how I feel about PADI.
That's how I feel about PADI.
PADI>>>Is it really worth joining?
- Thread starter RICHinNC
- Start date
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I don't see much in the way of usefull diving info in the magazine. Hell just the pictures they print are an embarassment. Divers with gauges and alternates dangling and divers kneeling on the bottom. I have a collection of these pictures framed on the wall of my shop. I use it to show students what you shouldn't do. They clearly don't have a clue.
Really? I recently spent an hour on the phone with an educational consultant at PADI talking about all the students I see with gear dangling and spending their class crawling around on the bottom. We talked about all the AOW students I see crawling their way through a their navigation dive and sitting on a platform to tie their knots for a S&R dive. We talked about all the instructors who don't do much better in the water. I was told that they are aware that some of their members don't understand or are cutting corners an what mastery learning is meant to be. Their answer is to reduce the amount of class time required through more advanced materials hoping instructors will spend more time in the pool. Some of the pictures of student in their own magazine show blatant equipment standards violations. Was anything done? Nevermind, I'll ask them. It's a disgusting mess, IMO. If QA really wants to do something they can visit one of our local training sites and find plenty to do!!!!!
Not around here we tried and they aren't interested.
The best thing they could do for the environment is to get their divers, instructors and course directors off the bottom and show the world what diving should look like!!![Q]
Again, if they want to make scuba safer they should make sure everyone holding one of their cards is tought buoyancy control and TRIM!! Personally I've been teaching instructors about trim because the mechanics of it is totally foreign to them. BTW, It's an attempt to help keep their students from blowing the vis in the first half hour of the day so I can see my students and so my students can see something.
Well they do advertise. Of course IMO most of the other agencies are just as screwed up and clueless about diving. That's why PADI instructors are being made fun of by GUE DIRF newbies who have just learned to hover. Embarassing, embarassing, embarassing!!!!
Drama, drama, drama.
It probably sounded good when you wrote it huh.
OP
RICHinNC
Contributor
Didnt mean to strike a nerve there seahunter.....
just trying to put my money where it will do the best for me. and, respectfully as well....i kinda doubt some of your reasoning, but support your right to air it....
and for those that seem to keep missing...nope...not an instructor...never will be..... i am referring to PADI Diving Society. and i just noticed....my card expires 08/03......and they start 4 months out sending letters??? oh well.
im sure PADI does some good things...and i am sure they mess some things up too. if not, they would be the first organization to be perfect.
think i will think some more on it......got 4 months...
just trying to put my money where it will do the best for me. and, respectfully as well....i kinda doubt some of your reasoning, but support your right to air it....
and for those that seem to keep missing...nope...not an instructor...never will be..... i am referring to PADI Diving Society. and i just noticed....my card expires 08/03......and they start 4 months out sending letters??? oh well.
im sure PADI does some good things...and i am sure they mess some things up too. if not, they would be the first organization to be perfect.
think i will think some more on it......got 4 months...
It's true. I would be embarrassed to show a PADI card. I have no respect for PADI as a training organization. In my opinion, they need to make many serious changes to gain any respect in training.
I'll go you one better...I'm running low on respect for all of the recreational agencies.
I'm not ashamed to show any card I have because I learned to dive despite them. I do however refuse to give credit to any agency. I feel like I invented it because I sure had to go the long way around the barn to learn it.
Mike,
I know you have earned any card you have, either before it was issued or after. I also know you do not give cards away, your students earn them.
I also know there are poor instructors in all agencies. The difference is in some agencies to teach a poor course, you have to not follow standards. YMCA, for example, is not perfect. There are standards changes I'd like to see put in place. I've proposed changes that have been adopted. I currently have some proposals that will be considered when standards are next addressed. OTOH, I can follow Y standards to the letter and the result will be a pretty good diver who is able to deal with problems effectively and not panic easily. This diver is ready to go out on their own, diving with a buddy from the same class and gain experience. If I were to follow PADI standards to the letter, I would produce a diver who may or may not be able to swim who is overly equipment dependent and is likely to panic at the first sign of trouble. This diver is ready to go dive in perfect conditions under professional supervision. IMHO, there's a big difference.
I know you have earned any card you have, either before it was issued or after. I also know you do not give cards away, your students earn them.
I also know there are poor instructors in all agencies. The difference is in some agencies to teach a poor course, you have to not follow standards. YMCA, for example, is not perfect. There are standards changes I'd like to see put in place. I've proposed changes that have been adopted. I currently have some proposals that will be considered when standards are next addressed. OTOH, I can follow Y standards to the letter and the result will be a pretty good diver who is able to deal with problems effectively and not panic easily. This diver is ready to go out on their own, diving with a buddy from the same class and gain experience. If I were to follow PADI standards to the letter, I would produce a diver who may or may not be able to swim who is overly equipment dependent and is likely to panic at the first sign of trouble. This diver is ready to go dive in perfect conditions under professional supervision. IMHO, there's a big difference.
Aw hell...lets just start our own agency. As if a shop wasn't enough trouble. LOL
BTW, I'm told PADI and IANTD have considered my proposed changes also. They consider them crazy because it would hurt sales. I think they have also considered asking me not to call anymore.
See I get considered plenty. LOL
BTW, I'm told PADI and IANTD have considered my proposed changes also. They consider them crazy because it would hurt sales. I think they have also considered asking me not to call anymore.
See I get considered plenty. LOL
ivansie
Guest
I have read this thread in full and agree/disagree with some of the remarks, but that is besides the point. I have a question though and let me make it clear I am not being sarcastic but a lot of problems, wrongdoings, etc have been aired but no specific solutions so: What do we do? what are possible solutions? but being realistic, remember how large this organizations are and how independent some of the shops and training agencies are and also remember that we want keep it open so you dont have to be either a navy seal to be able to dive.
I have a PADI OW card and I will say that I was at least satisfied with my 4 day training program, I would have love to train for probably 8 days instead of 4 to get the same certifications since I thought that the classroom and pool time was reasonable but 4 ocean dives were not. I think a lot depends on the instructor, ours IMHO did a good job, she didnt skip anything from the book, gave us all the quizes and exams making sure to clarify any concept we got wrong and also we had the materials a couple of weeks earlier so by the time we started class I had read some of the chapters. IMHO again, is like going to school, you have to do your part and be interested if no, it does not matter if cousteau himself is your teacher. During my class out of 6 students 1 did not pass which I though will not happen based on what I had heard about PADI training, the offered her 2 more dives the following weekend to see if she could get her card (dont know the outcome).
So my point is, what do we do... let diving become again the elitist group that it was before, I dont know maybe but if there are better options, I would like to hear it. I am up for more training, actually I had set a threshold for myself that I would not even try to get AOW before having at least 50 ocean dives just because I want to be comfortable with the basics before adding something else to the mix. I know there are people with AOW certifications that have less than probably 10 dives after OW, I think this is something where the agency could impose some restrictions saying... you know what dont accept anybody for AOW if they cannot show at least X amount of dives... it will be less money in training and gear but it will make it better I think, and like that maybe some other easy to implement, easy to control improvements.
bye
Ivan
I have a PADI OW card and I will say that I was at least satisfied with my 4 day training program, I would have love to train for probably 8 days instead of 4 to get the same certifications since I thought that the classroom and pool time was reasonable but 4 ocean dives were not. I think a lot depends on the instructor, ours IMHO did a good job, she didnt skip anything from the book, gave us all the quizes and exams making sure to clarify any concept we got wrong and also we had the materials a couple of weeks earlier so by the time we started class I had read some of the chapters. IMHO again, is like going to school, you have to do your part and be interested if no, it does not matter if cousteau himself is your teacher. During my class out of 6 students 1 did not pass which I though will not happen based on what I had heard about PADI training, the offered her 2 more dives the following weekend to see if she could get her card (dont know the outcome).
So my point is, what do we do... let diving become again the elitist group that it was before, I dont know maybe but if there are better options, I would like to hear it. I am up for more training, actually I had set a threshold for myself that I would not even try to get AOW before having at least 50 ocean dives just because I want to be comfortable with the basics before adding something else to the mix. I know there are people with AOW certifications that have less than probably 10 dives after OW, I think this is something where the agency could impose some restrictions saying... you know what dont accept anybody for AOW if they cannot show at least X amount of dives... it will be less money in training and gear but it will make it better I think, and like that maybe some other easy to implement, easy to control improvements.
bye
Ivan
OP
RICHinNC
Contributor
Interesting.....I never thought asking if I should renew my PADI membership would cause such a discussion......
Since most of my "away" diving is done with a PADI organization of some kind it really isnt a problem.....card wise that is....and i think any business that starts turning away PADI card holders is inflicting a major self groin kick....but there are those out there that would do it i am sure....
i def agree that training isnt that hard....and not that detailed....and the quality is totally dependent upon the instructor you take your lessons from....but that last point is true of any instructor.....
it will be interesting to see what other comments are added to this thread....but pls gents....keep it cool and respectable....thanks
Since most of my "away" diving is done with a PADI organization of some kind it really isnt a problem.....card wise that is....and i think any business that starts turning away PADI card holders is inflicting a major self groin kick....but there are those out there that would do it i am sure....
i def agree that training isnt that hard....and not that detailed....and the quality is totally dependent upon the instructor you take your lessons from....but that last point is true of any instructor.....
it will be interesting to see what other comments are added to this thread....but pls gents....keep it cool and respectable....thanks
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