PADI SSI and equipment tie ins

[Lorenzoid]

It's really funny that so many GUE divers prefer Halcyon gear, isn't it?

BTW, the owner of GUE is the owner of Halcyon.

Please don't read that as a mock on GUE--I have nothing but respect for the organization, and when I patronized the dive shop that is their headquarters (Extreme Exposure in High Springs, Florida), I got excellent service.

All true, but the fact that so many GUE divers use Halcyon doesn't necessarily mean that GUE instructors push Halcyon the way PADI and SSI instructors are said to push the gear that their shops sell. I am not yet what I would call well informed about GUE, but I do know they didn't mention Halcyon when I took Primer there. Sure, you walk into Extreme Exposure and it's one big advertisement for Halcyon, but I didn't HEAR from the instructor even a mild suggestion to buy Halcyon when we discussed gear choices as part of Primer. In fact, my takeaway from the course was that the hardware is all pretty similar, and that the choice of manufacturer is the least of the things I should concern myself with as a GUE newbie. I suppose if a newbie GUE diver sees a bunch of other GUE divers using Halcyon gear, it might sway their choice of gear. But being swayed a bit by the gear that the people you hang out with are using is nothing new or unique to diving.

 

[kelly7552]

I was in a hardware store the other day, looking to replace a toilet, and I asked for advice on different models. Can you believe it? I got the distinct impression they were trying to get me to buy it there! They even seemed to want me to pay for it! When I asked about installation, they quoted me a price that seemed too high, so I did it myself, even though I despise doing plumbing. The process is pretty simple--just about anyone can do it--I just hate plumbing. Before I did the installation, I called a local plumbing company to see what they would charge. Their standard rate for plumbing is $175 per hour, and they said installing a toilet usually takes about 1.5 hours--or about $260. I did it myself, taking just a little over 1.5 hours, so I guess I paid myself the highest hourly wage of my life in the money I saved.

I'm really not saying the LDS is evil, it's that certification agencies are based on TRUST and training. I PAY for the certification not a sales pitch. I have no issue with LDS selling equipment, but maybe it should be done NOT in class. Isn't it a conflict of interest? In my area dive shops are going under I believe because their business model relies on high priced equipment sales, wouldn't it be better to raise the price of a class, and have a more competitive sales product? With my smartphone I can look at an LDS's regulator price on Leisurepro through Amazon, do I feel OK paying 5% more? sure! Do I feel OK about 2X? Not really

What if the only Toilets your hardware store sold were high end Japanese TOTO brand full featured $2,500 toilets? Sir, here are our toilets please choose one!

There is a TON of gear for sale from lots of manufacturers, I wonder if an LDS could make more money consulting divers on what equipment to get, than stocking gear? In the land of LeisurePro, I wonder whether an LDS could make more money as gear consultants, than selling a very limited amount of high end gear?

 

[DougK]

The original post sounds much more like a person that hates to be advertised/sold to to at every turn as opposed to someone that is angry-at-Scubapro. I agree I don't want someone trying to sell me something at every turn. Listen the next time you are waiting in Jiffy Lube/Monro tire/Mr Tire, etc. and you will see no one can simply have their car serviced for what they came in to have done. The staff finds 5 things you "REALLY NEED TO GET DONE TODAY, WHILE YOU ARE HERE, DON"T LEAVE WITHOUT DOING THESE THINGS.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I went in and got the Kawasaki inspected today at the dealership. PA requires one every year. One salesman that knows me came over. Know what he said? "Hey, Mr. Lapenta, how are you? Nice day out. Still did not get anything you might be interested in on trade. The new ones are nice but know you don't want to drop that much on one.

Didn't say word about the 0% financing deals they have going on now. Guess where I will be going when I do decide I need another bike. Yep, right to him.

 

[fnfalman]

The agencies and LDS can advertise all they want, but if you were to not buy the gears from the LDS, then what's the problem?

---------- Post added August 6th, 2013 at 04:31 PM ----------

Believe it or not, but people that work for these dive agencies and LDS...they actually have to make money so that they can earn a living. Imagine that!!!

 

[kelly7552]

The agencies and LDS can advertise all they want, but if you were to not buy the gears from the LDS, then what's the problem?

Well in my mind it's about credibility. Don't you get a little nervous when a PADI or SSI class becomes vaguely like hearing a pitch to buy a timeshare? Can't we separate them?

 

[toddthecat]

What if the only Toilets your hardware store sold were high end Japanese TOTO brand full featured $2,500 toilets? Sir, here are our toilets please choose one!

You know your toilets pretty well!

 

[LowDrag]

Well in my mind it's about credibility. Don't you get a little nervous when a PADI or SSI class becomes vaguely like hearing a pitch to buy a timeshare? Can't we separate them?

I can't speak for PADI but I can say that my SSI OW class was not a gear sales pitch session that happened before class started . I can agree with you that your class should not be a sales pitch regardless of needing to "make a living". I think that is a lame excuse IMO. You can sell a customer good equipment without being pushy. At my LDS, I hang out so much that I am on occasion asked to assist with customers. The last pair of customers I worked with bought full basic gear for their OW class without being pitched. I showed them their options and let them make up their own minds, unlike the LDS where I started that pitched me all ScubaPro gear saying, "they like to dive the best". These customers would ask me questions and I would answer them and in doing so they bought good quality gear without exploding their budget. I get it that an LDS is in the business of making money but don't BS a customer just to make a sale that doesn't make it for me.



PS: Not BP&W users preach that all divers should use BP&W's with long hoses and bungee'd secondaries.

 

[FM1520]

If my understanding is correct, an example of an instructional agency that charges (more or less) market rates is GUE. I'm new to GUE, but it has been my impression that while GUE instruction costs a lot more than PADI or SSI instruction, they don't try to sell you gear. I really like this model.

Same with UTD. Although UTD has gear requirements they do not push any specific brand. Its great to have a conversation about gear with your instructors and get completely unbiased advice. I use a DSS BP/W, FWIW.

 

[Storker]

In my perfect world, training would be done by associations of divers (like a dive club), and Dive Shops would exist to sell gear.

Then anyone could get certified with a total lack of standards.

CMAS is an association of dive organizations, and most CMAS training is given by clubs, not commercial dive centers. And IME, as a PADI diver, CMAS training is on average superior to PADI training. There's not so much economic incentive to push the students through the course as quickly as possible.

One dive club might teach really well, the other might not teach worth crap.

Do you mean like things are right now with PADI courses, where some shops give you a bare minimum to fulfill agency standards, while others actually make sure you've learned the skills you're supposed to master? (d&r)


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