PADI vs NAUI certifications, and onto AOW

[tachyon]

Sorry Tachyon but the Advanced Plus certification level does not exist any more.. you have the adventure diver wich is 3 adventure dives and the Advance Open Water diver that are 5 Adventure dives (deep and navigation are obligatory and you can choose 3 more) every adventure dive can count as the first dive of the speciality.

The literature I was looking at said that it was offered, however, it's not shown on their website; so I stand corrected.

Tachyon

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

By an instructor that is certified both PADI, and NAUI is that 1) NAUI does allow more freedom from the instructor stantpoint. What that actually means I have no idea.

I can explain this to you from the NAUI perspective ... I'll leave it up to a PADI instructor to compare and constrast to that organization's approach.

NAUI's teaching philosophy allows the instructor what they refer to as "freedom to teach". This means that the instructor is required to teach a certain minimum level of information, and if the instructor chooses to teach additional information beyond that, it's OK to do so.

This makes a lot of sense to me, because ...

1) It gives an instructor an opportunity to tailor classes to the conditions in which they are teaching (local knowledge).

2) It gives the instructor leeway to alter their teaching style to best fit the needs of a specific class or student (recognizing that people are individuals with different learning styles).

3) It provides a way for an instructor who wants to work harder to offer more value for their students than the guy at the next dive shop (basic competitive business model).

NAUI also uses a more subjective standard for determining whether or not a student has "mastered" the specific skill requirements of a course. They use what they refer to as the "loved one" standard. The instructor is supposed to ask himself or herself ... "would I want my loved one diving with this student at this level"? If the answer is no, then it means that the student has not yet acquired the requisite skill to progress beyond this level. In other words, just because you've "technically" met the requirements of the class doesn't mean you pass. This is especially useful for weeding out the boneheads who think they can go sit on the bottom in 20 feet of water for 20 minutes multiple times in order to meet the "number of dives" requirement for a specific level of certification ... because an instructor can tell when you have technically logged 100 dives, but still dive like you've only logged 15 or 20 ... and if they believe you are not ready to become a divemaster or instructor (for example) and refuse to pass you, NAUI will back that decision.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rainman_02]

NAUI tables (Navy based one) are very conservative.

NAUI also has RGBM which I personally think is useful only for deco dives.

PADI tables on the other hand, are all messed up. Their table 1 is conservative but their table 2 (SI table) is so liberal to the point where PADI would allow longer bottom times on repetitive dives than the Navy tables would. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe PADI still goes by 60fpm ascent rate?

I've been certified under both NAUI and PADI. NAUI for OW (Scuba Diver) and PADI for AOW and EANx. I was diving last month with someone who has only been certified under NAUI (OW, AOW, EANx, Rescue) and someone who has only been certified under PADI (OW, AOW, and EANx)...so I can give you some first hand comparison:

My friend's NAUI table was quite conservative, especially on the repetetive dives. His dive tables were the limit for the three of us. Using the RDPs and the Wheel, the dive plans often came out to within minutes of what my Suunto computer said were the limits. The NAUI table was much more conservative.

I find it interesting that the NAUI tables were significantly different than both the computer and the PADI tables/wheel. I know the RDP/Wheel has been "advanced" from the US Navy dive tables, and according to my Suunto manual, the tables built into it are "slightly more conservative than those permitted by the U.S. Navy tables."

I'm comfortable in the water with what I've learned under both agencies. I had good instructors in all my classes so far and I am conservative in my diving. I just find the table discussion interesting.

 

[filauri]

I can explain this to you from the NAUI perspective ... I'll leave it up to a PADI instructor to compare and constrast to that organization's approach.

NAUI's teaching philosophy allows the instructor what they refer to as "freedom to teach". This means that the instructor is required to teach a certain minimum level of information, and if the instructor chooses to teach additional information beyond that, it's OK to do so.

This makes a lot of sense to me, because ...

1) It gives an instructor an opportunity to tailor classes to the conditions in which they are teaching (local knowledge).

2) It gives the instructor leeway to alter their teaching style to best fit the needs of a specific class or student (recognizing that people are individuals with different learning styles).

3) It provides a way for an instructor who wants to work harder to offer more value for their students than the guy at the next dive shop (basic competitive business model).


... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob here are some comparation and constrast of what we have with padi
1) It gives an instructor an opportunity to tailor classes to the conditions in which they are teaching (local knowledge).
PADI doesn't give you the opportunity to tailor classes to the local conditions YOU HAVE TO DO IT
2) It gives the instructor leeway to alter their teaching style to best fit the needs of a specific class or student (recognizing that people are individuals with different learning styles).
PADI offers different materials for different learning styles if you prefer watching video you can do it, if you like computers they have multimedia cd or if you prefer books they have it! so you can alter your teaching style to fit the needs of your students

Nicolas

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

PADI offers different materials for different learning styles if you prefer watching video you can do it, if you like computers they have multimedia cd or if you prefer books they have it! so you can alter your teaching style to fit the needs of your students

NAUI does that too ... but that's not what I meant. NAUI provides you with a guideline of topics that must be taught. You can organize that material any way that seems logical to you ... and you can add course topics if you choose to.

I feel that this approach enables the instructor to add value to any course if he or she so chooses.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[taylode]

NAUI does that too ... but that's not what I meant. NAUI provides you with a guideline of topics that must be taught. You can organize that material any way that seems logical to you ... and you can add course topics if you choose to.

I feel that this approach enables the instructor to add value to any course if he or she so chooses.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

In the hands of a good instructor that freedom is great. Unfortunately, that only applies to those that are better than average, which will not be the majority. By scripting the training they, the certifing organizations, have much better odds of delivering consistent training across the board -- no heros required. If we conducted a poll of instructors and asked to rate themselves how may do you think would rate them selves as average or worse below average?

Being a newbie, I had no way to evaluate the quality of instruction when the instructor went outside the box. One of the reasons I choose PADI was that they maintain strict control over what is taught. I could be realitively assured that I would get consistant training even if I made an error in judgement when selecting my instructor.

I would think that teaching outside of the box would be much more beneficial for more advanced training. It would also be easier for the student to evaluate. During OW the concepts are too new for a newbie evaluate what is good and what isn't.

Just my $.02.

 

[Blackwood]

Also I heard that PADI rules do not allow you to use the word die, or death during a class.

That would suprise me. The PADI book says "die."

 

[Divedoggie]

WOW!
What about experience? :doctor:
One of my best friends is an SSI Instructor with the minimum # of dives to qualify for Instructor, another is NAUI, and also has around 100 dives.
Javier, from BXTS in Coz is PADI with over 9,000 dives. I learned more diving with him for a few days than with anyone else.
Once you are certified, you gain more knowledge, wisdom, experience, through actual diving, diving with people more experienced than you, and continuing education. As long as the certifying agency is competent, who cares if the word "die" is used or not. I would hope that we all know what the consequences are. :voskl1:

 

[Heffey]

In the hands of a good instructor that freedom is great. Unfortunately, that only applies to those that are better than average, which will not be the majority. By scripting the training they, the certifing organizations, have much better odds of delivering consistent training across the board -- no heros required. If we conducted a poll of instructors and asked to rate themselves how may do you think would rate them selves as average or worse below average?

Being a newbie, I had no way to evaluate the quality of instruction when the instructor went outside the box. One of the reasons I choose PADI was that they maintain strict control over what is taught. I could be realitively assured that I would get consistant training even if I made an error in judgement when selecting my instructor.

I would think that teaching outside of the box would be much more beneficial for more advanced training. It would also be easier for the student to evaluate. During OW the concepts are too new for a newbie evaluate what is good and what isn't.

Just my $.02.

I understand the basic premise of your statement and feel that it is valid to a point. I too like the idea of instructors teaching the required materials. Where our viewpoints diverge is that I like the idea of being able to receive extra information or skills if I and my instructor feel I am ready for a little more.
Your statement seems to say that bad instructors may give bad information if allowed extra freedom to teach and yet you seem to miss the point that bad instructors are just as likely to miss the boat on the required information and skills as well. I understand the spirit of what you are trying to say but it is pretty much a moot point if we are referring to well trained, experienced and honest instructors. I really feel that all instructors, bad or good will all teach up to or as the case may be, down to their own individual standards. I guess that brings us back to "it’s all about the instructor". BTW congrats on getting back into scuba.
Just my $.02 on your $.02
Jeffrey

 

[britunderwater]

Congrats to all on the good behaviour in this topic

PADI Standards are constantly evolving and changing to reflect current dive theory and day to day practicalities. The various levels of diver certifications changes according to both marketing considerations as well as industry interests.

The EC have recently issued normalisations to assist divers with different agencies in recognition of their cert levels throught Europe. Allowing dive operations to better judge training levels.

Regarding the difference between US Navy Tables and the PADI RDP. These are differences in the controlling tissue compartment chosen and do offer very different dive data. Most Dive Computers use similar washout limitations to the PADI RDP or near enough and do give better repetitive dive times.

Happy diving all
Peter