"Piece of Paper Syndrome"

[goonsquad]

I took it upon myself to contact Padi regarding this matter and they assured me that, no matter how much paper work was submitted, they would be unwilling to instructor-certify a chimp. They stated their policy was very specific on this matter and that "Resuce Diver" was the highest level of certification possible for a chimp, or any other primate. You should, in the future, make a more thorough attempt to have your facts straight before making such a claim.

You do realize you're a primate...

 

[goonsquad]

I don't really understand why everyone is berating the guy. He was given a choice, he made a choice, it worked out. When you do an activity that is potentially life threatening every time and every dive is a potentially life threatening dive, you have made a choice. If you can't deal with the fact that you might die every time you go out why go out at all?
You might have a heart attack or a OOA emergency where you find yourself alone or your buddy runs out of air and panics and you both die, or etc. etc.
You take on the responsibility of your choice, but its still a choice regardless of the outcome.

 

[Walter]

I don't really understand why everyone is berating the guy. He was given a choice, he made a choice, it worked out. When you do an activity that is potentially life threatening every time and every dive is a potentially life threatening dive, you have made a choice. If you can't deal with the fact that you might die every time you go out why go out at all?

That's not the issue. The issue is he advocated the practice for others.

Question:

So I'm talking with this guy and he has been diving for years, he said he wants to take me out to a shallow reef with his dive buddy that's 10-15 ft deep max. I kind of laughed and said I'm not certified yet and will be in a the next coming weeks. He said its ok, its too shallow and it will help me "get my feet wet" before I actually dip into the class. Now I'm a pretty decent swimmer, and do plenty of spearfishing free diving, but with scuba diving, its not as simple as throwing on your mask and fins and jump in..

Question: Do people really just strap on a bunch of gear on and jump in with no training and leave their life in the hands of a couple guys just to get their feet wet?! Even though it is shallow water, what are your guys thoughts on this?

Answer:

At 15 ft, you are at less than one added atm of pressure, so if worse came to worse, you could dump the gear, and head to the surface, with very minimal risk of an over expansion injury.

Seeing as you free-dive, you should be comfortable in the water, so that's to your benefit.

When you think about it, the first pool-lesson that you take as a scuba diver can be 15ft, and what experience do you really have? And at 15ft, Micheal Phelps couldn't stay down on a tank of air, long enough to hit a decompression limit, so that's not a concern either.

I guess the bottom line is, What do You know of his "experience", and are you comfortable putting your life in their hands,(at a minimal degree)?

Later he says:

Given your specifics, I'd say Go 4 it, and welcome to the world of diving!

It's not about him taking foolish risks. It's about him encouraging others to take foolish risks.

 

[inked59]

Well said Walter! Each and every one of us has the right to decide to take risks with our own lives but we do not have the right to advise others to do so. I posted in the first thread on the side of him NOT diving without certification and I am neither a DM or Instructor so I have nothing to gain by posting my opinion.

 

[iztok]

Why? Because what he is suggesting is not a sound/safe advice. It is not conservative at all.

It is not a good role model behavior.

What OP displayed is bad judgment and also gives bad (in therms of being potentially lethal) advice.

Sure it is all fun and games until one gets to ride the chamber or an oak casket.

 

[boulderjohn]

It's not about him taking foolish risks. It's about him encouraging others to take foolish risks.

And more to the point of this thread....

I was probably too subtle in my earlier post. I was referring to the OP when I gave the hypothetical example of a diver with 100-199 dives as a Mentor. I was quoting the OP when I gave the example of erroneous theory that could lead to a diver's death.

The problem with a Mentor who encourages people to take foolish risks is compounded when the Mentor does not in fact understand the physics behind those risks.

 

[iztok]

Is it just me or many others find OP posts rather scary?

We are all adults but to give dangerous advice even after being told it is dangerous?

 

[Walter]

Is it just me or many others find OP posts rather scary?

We are all adults but to give dangerous advice even after being told it is dangerous?

He is very scary. When I read his posts in the other thread, I refrained from responding for two reasons. First, others had already posted explaining how dangerous Gambitt's suggestions were. Second, I was afraid I might violate TOS and call him a fool. I had to remind myself that sometimes foolish things come from people who are not fools.

 

[goonsquad]

Walter, Understood. I do agree with you that no one should be giving anyone advice that someone should take on unneeded risks when it is very easy to get training and be much safer.

I still disagree with berating his decision. I am fine with someone else risking their lives to do something, I just don't feel bad for them when it doesn't work out...

I wouldn't do what he did, I am a bit of a safety nazi when it comes to my own well being, I have been hurt and injured enough in my life to learn what being foolish accomplishes. But hey, you want to risk it on the reassurance of someone who you trust that is okay with me, I trust my instructors and from some of the stories I hear about the instructors out there I may be doing something very foolish myself.

 

[diver_doug]

You do realize you're a primate...

woops...make that: non-human primate.