Popular Specialities

[k ellis]

this is true only the equivelant of a diploma. It shows you have achieved something

 

[emttim]

Emtim, The reason I think Nav is good is two-fold. With lower viz, getting students to trust the compass is key. Even good viz environments warrants it, but with lower viz (eg SoCal waters), I can usually demonstrate the benefit. I have often "wowed" the students in OW and AOW with how close we return to our starting point (boat/shore entry point). When explaining compass use and current reading, it is a natural roll into a class where they get to practice in a "staged" environment with someone to help out if they go astray - tough to practice on your own and find you missed the point .. by a lot potentially. The second reason is that you learn from someone how to read currents, natural navigation, sand lines, reference point usage, etc.

Yes, you can learn on your own, but reminding people that are new that they did not learn how to drive by just jumping behind the wheel with no parent/sibling/instructor probably found frustration. By getting hands-on help you probably felt more comfortable behind the wheel. Yes, it does entail some salesmanship, but putting the need for nav in land-based scenarios will hopefully demonstrate the value.

As for the Naturalist.. A marine biologist would add a TON of value.. the problem is getting that point across when discussing the class to people.. Again, you can sell it, but it entails more face to face discussion.. like saying WOW, did you see that XXX on that dive. His colors were amazing.. the way the green spots really made you think his eyes were elsewhere, etc... (example).

I have had a few students ask for Nav, and am teaching a group of 5 starting this week actually. Many of the people that discuss wanting Rescue, or a desire to learn, I highly encourage this class. It will help tremendously with the search part of Rescue.... and again, anything that build confidence in diving (eg compass use) is key.

I once had a group of divers on a boat where we all returned to the anchor line. We got in the boat, and one of them noticed 2 divers off in the distance.. the FIRST thing the diver said was... Gee, I guess they didn't know how to use their compass.. I couldn't help but smile... Sure, something else could have caused the oopsie, but I let that one sit....

Ah, thanks for sharing. navigation is indeed very important, I think my instructor probably just stressed it more than most in OW/AOW hence why I never felt the need to take a UW nav course. You are definitely right that it's a lot less of a hassle for new divers to take the course, however, instead of just figuring it out on their own if they need some extra help on compasses and navigation.

I quickly got good at UW nav, especially with boat diving, after surfacing the first time. That surface swim friggin' sucked.

You seem to mis-understand what the PADI MSD actually is. To use your analogy, its like going to college, getting your degree and then paying out money just for a nice wooden framed photograph. You learn or gain nothing out of it, simple hand over money for a material object. It is NOT even by PADIs definitions a qualification.

Another good analogy would be that PADI MSD is to diving what diploma mills are to college degrees. Sure it may sound good or make you look good, but if you know that it was completely worthless, why waste the money?

 

[k ellis]

Another good analogy would be that PADI MSD is to diving what diploma mills are to college degrees. Sure it may sound good or make you look good, but if you know that it was completely worthless, why waste the money?

Well again as I have said before I am sorry people dont see it the same way but it is not completely worthless as it is something you can say you have achieved. Maybe it is a waste of money for some but to others its so they can sit back and be proud of what they have accomplished. So no its not completely worthless

 

[NudeDiver]

Your neighbor comes to you and tells you that she won the gymnastics of the year award. Does that mean you will run out and get it because its so prestiege. No so to you it would be worthless and meaningless.

Um....no it wouldn't. I would think it to be a great accomplishment. I have no clue why you would think I would think it worthless and meaningless. Now, if they won this award and then went out and bought themselves a trophy indicating that they are gymnast of the year - then yeah, that would be somewhat worthless. It's the achievement that matters, not the physical manifestation of some recognition of that achievement that matters.

As for the cost to achieve. You are correct in saying you why pay for something you should get for free. So in this regard I would say why buy a bottle of water when tap water is far cheaper and more abundant. There is no flaw in the way one looks at achievement except that achievement is as only valuable as those around you respect it.

Wow. Another really, really, really flawed analogy.

 

[NudeDiver]

Well again as I have said before I am sorry people dont see it the same way but it is not completely worthless as it is something you can say you have achieved. Maybe it is a waste of money for some but to others its so they can sit back and be proud of what they have accomplished. So no its not completely worthless

You keep saying this over, and over again - without saying anything new or substantial. It's like listening to Governor Palin blather on and on.

Why do you need to buy a little plastic card to be proud of your dive experience, when you can just look at your other plastic cards and dive log, which equate to the same thing?? It just makes no sense.

String's analogy was pretty good. Maybe he can offer you a GUE Analogy Fundamentals class or something.

K - no one has said that completing AOW, Rescue, 5 specialties and 50 dives is not an achievement. What we're saying is that, after having done these things, spending the money to buy a PADI Master card is NOT an achievement. It's a purchase...as String said, like buying a frame for a diploma. A person who has spent the money on the card has no additional achievement over someone else who has AOW, Rescue, 5 specialties and 50 dives and NOT purchased a PADI Master card. You don't even seem to be acknowledging this argument, let alone understand it.

But you can keep on spouting what an achievement it is to buy a little plastic card. No one will stop you.

 

[k ellis]

awe as the same with the disagreement I wont argue with you. At best both points have been made and are valid And yes I have agreed that it is a purchase of achievement I guess you missed that part. The only point I was trying to make again as I shall repeat is it stands to represent achievement. But on to new subjects and thanks to all the input on this subject

Happy Diving to all!

 

[NudeDiver]

And yes I have agreed that it is a purchase of achievement I guess you missed that part.

You can't purchase achievement.

 

[k ellis]

 

[Rhone Man]

I think the MSD rating works particularly well for kids. It gives them goals, it sounds cool, it gives them something to tell their friends about. It keeps them away from the Nintendo DS and outdoors.

If my son tells me one day he wants to shoot for his MSD I'll certainly be giving him support and encouragement for setting goals (and I'll try and steer him away from "soft" courses), even it means I have to eat $40 for a card that isn't worth a whole heck of a lot in real terms one day.

Grown up kids like me who get it? What can I say? We're badge collectors. I can live with that. I hope PADI spends my $40 sensibly.

 

[Tortuga68]

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PS Certificate frames are also available for $25 extra, plus postage