Premiere Elements 3.0 and HDV... Anyone Else Have These Issues?

[drbill]

I decided to split this response to another thread off as a new thread since it may attract replies it wouldn't otherwise:


I purchased Adobe Premiere Elements 3.0 just so I could edit the HDV footage from my new HC-7. I've found it appears to have a lot of problems that I've never seen in any of the earlier versions of Premiere that I've used (6.5 is the current one on my video editing machine).

On the positive side, it is almost crash proof compared to my experience with earlier versions. I've only had it freeze up twice on me. It captures my HDV footage to a 5,400 rpm hard drive without a problem (big surprise, although I will add the 7,200 rpm USB hard drive to it soon... just been using it for other projects).

HOWEVER, here are some of the problems I've seen editing with Elements 3.0:

1. If you edt in the view finder (defining in and out points there and dragging the clip to the timeline), it strangely cuts the clips at sub-frame levels! I have no idea how it does that, but when I place two clips together in a butt edit, there is a subframe level gap between them that I have to go back in and trim on the timeline. Once these gaps are trimmed out on the timeline, everything is fine, but this adds an extra step to the editing process just to clean up this error.

2. If I am not careful in placing a new sequence on the timeline, it is fairly easy for the placement of that sequence to clip the previous or following sequence, creating tiny (or very large if I'm not careful) slivers that also have to be edited out. When editing this way in Premiere 6.5, I don't remember ever having this problem. Perhaps there is a default I should change so it can't happen?

3. When exporting portions of the timeline to AVI, MPEG or other files, I find that even if I am very careful to place the in and out points at the beginning and ending of the clips to export, I get one frame from the preceeding sequence in the exported portion. This requires that I edit the one frame out at the beginning of each exported segment when I do any final production. Never happened with earlier Premiere versions (unless I was very careless in defining the in or out points).

I'll have to look at my notes on a computer at home to come up with the rest. I'm compiling a list since I intend to write tjhe appropriate people at Sony to ask about these issues.

"Other than that," Premiere Elements 3.0 has worked pretty well... but these are significant issues to me.

 

[pcorliss]

Have you noticed similar issues with non-HD footage? Is this possibly a GOP issue, and how Adobe's codec handles (or doesn't) it? Have you been able to check the same footage against a version of Pro to see if it is a general codec issue or if it is indeed specific to Elements?

 

[paulpost]

I think Peter is wright, the problem is in the way MPEG2 compress the data that is recoded to tape, this explain why you can record 60 min of HD on a miniDV tape.
I suggest to test using your DV recordings and see if you have the same problems.
If you cut your HD clips down to frame level try to do the cuts at second level in the time line and let us know your findings.
Paul

 

[drbill]

Have you noticed similar issues with non-HD footage? Is this possibly a GOP issue, and how Adobe's codec handles (or doesn't) it? Have you been able to check the same footage against a version of Pro to see if it is a general codec issue or if it is indeed specific to Elements?

Peter, I thought the TOS prohibited political discussions. Even I don't think this is a Republican conspiracy!

Haven't tried editing any non-HD footage using Elements 3.0, but it does pose a possible test.

My most recent version of Premiere before Elements is 6.5. Most of the video editors I know here on the island use Macs (one is probably in my future too).

 

[TTA]

Sorry I'm not going to be much help, but I've noticed a problem similar perhaps to your point 3 - not entirely sure if it is related but it is using Premiere Elements 3 and HD video camcorder. I'll describe the issue:

I've downloaded some video using Premiere Elements 3 from my Canon HV10. It's split entire video up into clips, but the problem each clip has a couple of frames from the previous clip at the beginning. The camcorder has been set on DV lock and clips are downloaded through firewire as DV-AVI files.

I have also tried downloading using Windows Movie Maker with the same effect (i.e. a few frames at the front of each clip being from the previous clip). So I was thinking this is more of a problem with the camcorder rather than the software.

At the moment I am getting around this by changing the start of the clip to a few frames in (by dragging the clip in), but obviously don't want to do this for all my clips!

Am in the process of calling Canon to see if they can help - although this does not seem to be a common problem as it is not on the canon forums. I've also posted on the premiere elements forums and they seem to think it is a problem with the software.

Will let you know how I get on.

I should add also that I downloaded some video by putting an older tape (recorded with an older canon camcorder, not HV) into the HV10 and the clips were fine - with the beginning being correctly identified.

 

[drbill]

IMHO, regardless of the way HDV is compressed as MPEG's, Premiere should be able to recognize frame breaks in the preview window and cut them accurately, just as it seems capable of doing on the timeline.

Haven't had a chance to test this using mini-DV footage, but regardless of the results with that format Premiere should be able to handle HDV properly.

 

[diversteve]

Maybe that's one of the differences between a product that retails for $68.50 and one that's $800. (Premiere CS3)

Not that it's right...

 

[drbill]

I thought I'd update this thread to let people know that I tried some mini-DV (720x480) footage in Adobe Premiere 3.0 to see if editing in the preview window would create the same problem with it as it did with HD footage. I'm referring to the fact that editing within that window appears to chop off segments that are not cut at even frame ends. That is, there is excess footage present when I edit segments in the preview window and butt edit them on the time line.

I'm beginning to wonder if this might be an issue related to frame rates. The original mini-DV and HD footage was shot at 29.97 fps but the output frame rate appears to be 25 fps and I have yet to find a way to make the two consistent.

 

[PerroneFord]

Output frame rate is 25p? Are you working in PAL on Premiere Elements? You might well be seeing decimation as it tries to reconcile your 29.97 source and 25fps (PAL) output.

 

[drbill]

It is supposed to be NTSC output which is what is confusing me since it also says 25 fps frame rate. It plays fine on the HC-7 monitor (which is NTSC) but not from the HC-7 to my HD TV via HDMI cable. I'm going to have to see if it plays via RCA connectors.