Question about air2's

[doctormike]

So, then the question becomes: am I confident that, in an actual life threatening emergency, I will be able to think clearly enough to remember to do things differently than I do them 99.99 percent of the time I am diving. ...
If you have not been involved in a real emergency, you do not know how you will handle the stress and panic involved. People do not think and react normally with a liter of adrenaline coursing through their veins and while dealing with a diver who has been without air.

+1

And for those of you who are getting defensive about this discussion, remember that we are not trying to win an argument. We are trying to share our experience and explain the reasons we have reached our conclusions. We think it's safer.

Exactly. I'm not sure what the point is of mocking the entire process of discussing things in an Internet forum. No one here who has presented reasonable concerns about the Air2 has said that you are going to die if you use one, or that a piece of gear causes instant death, or that something should be "banned".

Seriously, I wasn't even going to comment on this meta-stuff, but if someone really feels that the correct response to any question about gear is "do whatever works for you, there is no one correct way of doing things" then what's the point of even reading these threads or posting at all?

Yeah, people make fun of the DIR Kool-Aid stuff, and maybe that's not for everyone (it's not for me), but it might be worth taking a few minutes to consider that some very experienced divers diving in some very challenging conditions have concluded that optimizing and standardizing gear is worthwhile. Bad stuff happens on "just recreational" dives too.

 

[saudio]

Certified in 1991 with over 2975 posts in over 2 states.

You should try posting in Virginia. We have healthy ISP's and clear, warm servers.

 

[BDSC]

Sounds like my kinda place. Afterall, Virginia is for Lovers!

 

[saudio]

Sounds like my kinda place. Afterall, Virginia is for Lovers!

And Surfers!

 

[BDSC]

We sometimes get some decent waves here right before a hurricane.

 

[Spitts6654]

To each their own, I am guessing most of the people against it have never even used one.

As far as the familiarity aspect everyone keeps jumping on, I am very familiar with mine since it is there every time I dive and since I am the one that will be breathing off of it, I'll be fine.

Train what to do and you will do what you have been trained when the situation arises. Worked in the military, works in diving too.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I guess all of these conversations come down to the appropriate application of standards. Sometimes standards are a good thing (e.g. tank maintenance, hand signals, dive tables), other times blindly adhering to standards can suppress innovation. We aren't still diving J-valve tanks without SPGs, and it's good that that particular standard was replaced by something better.

As far as I can tell, the main advantage of the Air2 is one less hose. I guess if you really find that to be an overriding concern, it makes it worthwhile. But if you do have one, then you really need to commit to ongoing practice and training. Even so, I would prefer to have a buddy with a regular regulator on an adequate length hose (preferably 7 feet long!), just to keep things flexible and as close to normal as possible in an emergency.

I've been using mostly Air-2's for maybe 15 years now... You are missing a few things. The Air 2 hose is MUCH easier to disconnect in an emergency. And we know that "stuck-on- inflators" is vastly more common than the need to share air. I personally consider that a significant benefit, more so than the loss of a hose.

As for all the "extra training" this device necessitates... It ain't much, just stick the damn thing in your mouth and come up. Do it often, learn how it feels, if it pulls and practice over and over on dumping air on ascent. To be honest, switching over to the Air 2 is such a "non-event" that I hardly ever practice it. I try to remember to make my kid do it with me on ascent.

Since I almost always dive with a back mounted pony with the second stage bungied around my neck. I would have no good place to store a third, normal standard octopus. In addition, we KNOW that people trying to manage three standard second stages have gotten confused, screwed up and died! This type of confusion is nearly impossible with a pony second stage on my neck and my Air 2 and my primary. So IF someone dives with a back mounted pony, I see another reason to use an AIR 2 (we are going far beyond the elimination of a hose here).


Another advantage... if I am doing "baby dives" and decide to not take the pony, I can still dive the rig without screwing around and adding an additional hose onto my regulator...A significant advantage.

I'm not some kind of Air 2 cheerleader, but it does provide some benefits, enhances SOME aspects of safety and has worked pretty well for me for many dives... It seems that you would argue that standardization would move us away from this device..

I think recreational divers would derive much more benefit from being better trained, rather than worrying over what kind of "standard" BC inflator they use.

This video shows my son and me, sharing my short primary and me using the Air 2 to conserve some of my 13-yr old son's air so we could more safely make it back to the ascent line at 80 feet. Does this look "hard" to anyone?

[video=youtube_share;vDrF1AOnabc]http://youtu.be/vDrF1AOnabc[/video]

 

[Herb-alaska]

I think you just perfectly summed up the objections of every diver who has carefully considered combo rigs vs standard octopus rigs and has decided to pass on combos.

I don't think any reasonable person can argue that a combo rig is as simple and intuitive to use as a standard octopus rig is. It is not. Period. You breathe through a standard regulator 99.99 percent of the time you are under water and most people adjust their buoyancy by purging their BC with the hose over their head. In an emergency, you will have to do things differently.

So, then the question becomes: am I confident that, in an actual life threatening emergency, I will be able to think clearly enough to remember to do things differently than I do them 99.99 percent of the time I am diving. If your answer to that question is "yes", and you are willing to make a high stakes bet on it, and the luxury of having one less hose is worth whatever you assess the risk to be (because it is NOT zero), then a combo inflator is a logical choice. For many of us, it simply is not.

If you have not been involved in a real emergency, you do not know how you will handle the stress and panic involved. People do not think and react normally with a liter of adrenaline coursing through their veins and while dealing with a diver who has been without air.

And for those of you who are getting defensive about this discussion, remember that we are not trying to win an argument. We are trying to share our experience and explain the reasons we have reached our conclusions. We think it's safer.

Ok just a quick note.

1st I use a air ii by choice because I feel that for me the large piano style buttons are more comfortable. Sometimes I use an additional second stage to give me three second stages sometimes I just use my sp rig which depends on the air ii as the only octo

2 I dive with folks that use unconventional gear and I make a point of looking over what they use before the dive so I know what I will do in the event of a emergency. One buddy I dive with uses a plate with out a wing depending on his ds as his flotation while he combines this with his 50 year old double hose regulator that does not even have an allowance for a octo. My point being is I think about what gear others have and I don't feel it is burdensome for you to learn to use a air ii if your buddy uses one.

3. I know how I will react with my air ii in a pressure situations as it is what my psd team uses on our back plates and our older bcds I find the air ii to be very comfortable

the key is Simple. If you don't like the air ii don't use it. If you don't like that I or your buddy uses air ii. Don't dive with us. I will never accept that there is only one way to do something safely and that includes equipment too

 

[CT-Rich]

I think you just perfectly summed up the objections of every diver who has carefully considered combo rigs vs standard octopus rigs and has decided to pass on combos.

I don't think any reasonable person can argue that a combo rig is as simple and intuitive to use as a standard octopus rig is. It is not. Period. You breathe through a standard regulator 99.99 percent of the time you are under water and most people adjust their buoyancy by purging their BC with the hose over their head. In an emergency, you will have to do things differently.

So, then the question becomes: am I confident that, in an actual life threatening emergency, I will be able to think clearly enough to remember to do things differently than I do them 99.99 percent of the time I am diving. If your answer to that question is "yes", and you are willing to make a high stakes bet on it, and the luxury of having one less hose is worth whatever you assess the risk to be (because it is NOT zero), then a combo inflator is a logical choice. For many of us, it simply is not.

If you have not been involved in a real emergency, you do not know how you will handle the stress and panic involved. People do not think and react normally with a liter of adrenaline coursing through their veins and while dealing with a diver who has been without air.

And for those of you who are getting defensive about this discussion, remember that we are not trying to win an argument. We are trying to share our experience and explain the reasons we have reached our conclusions. We think it's safer.

You will have to do things differently in an emergency? Ahhhhhhhhh..... Yep, errrrr, you might have to find another source of air, just a suggestion.... I might also try to find another way to dump air on my BCD other than hold the LP inflator over my head (like using the 3 other to dump air).

To say that In an emergency 99.99% of divers will remember this that or the other thing is the only way to save there lives doesn't really support the argument. for most of my diving career (Certified in 1980) my octo was tucked neatly in my ass crack. For most recreational divers, there octo might as well be stored there. I grab my LP inflator several times every dive. I think that trumps the fact that most divers are practicing air sharing with their traditional octo, how many time during a diver? How many times on a dive are they checking where your octo is located? The benefit of muscle memory from grabbing and operating your Air II will go more for situational awareness than the diver that OCCASIONALLY checks where his secondary is an if it is hasn't slipped out.

Air II may not constitute a majority, but there are probably more of them out there than there are people with DIR or HOG configurations. Not that there is anything wrong with diving those rigs, despite the fact that make only a small fraction recreational divers. Although, we might consider banning all those rigs with there confusing piles of redundant gear, it might confuse a stressed diver, preventing them from successfully mugging other divers for there back-up air, causing more gear related tragedies.

By the way, who exactly does "We" represent? Writing yourself in third person plural does not constitute a knowledgable majority.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

Just because your Seaquest has the usual stuff, they all must be that way! Right? Wrong.

SeaQuest Pro QD with I3 technology.

Buy Seaquest Pro QD with i3 Technology BC X-Small Black/Red from Leisure Pro

View attachment 155899

Please note the little lever at the bottom.

Actually, it's more like - just because ONE model of SeaQuest has I3 doesn't mean all of them do.
You'll note that you're the one that made the silly generalization that all SeaQuests have the IC3. I merely pointed out your error.