Question about air2's

[doctormike]

The basis of your argument is that a diver will be "more used to" breathing off an emergency second stage than using an AIR 2 in a real emergency. I think this is a weak argument for several reasons.. First, a normal diver is going to be grabing and operating his AIR 2 SEVERAL times during EVERY dive (inflate and possibly deflate with it). Utilization of the device is unavoidable.

OK, I don't have one, so I'll assume that you are right about this. But it sounds as if you are just referring to using it as a standard inflate/dump for the BC, not sure why you would be breathing off it routinely several times during every dive? Or do you mean you would just be holding it during the dive to adjust buoyancy? If so, not sure how that translates to practice sharing air.

But then again, it doesn't sound like you need much practice to deploy it for yourself... seems pretty simple to do. Is it just as easy to inflate and dump air from the BC during ascent, while you are breathing from it? Don't know, wouldn't think so, but I'll take your word if you say so...

Conversely, a normal diver is NOT going to be locating and utilizing his back up "standard" second stage several times during ever dive. Not to mention, so damn many of them have them positioned TERRIBLY and all too often packed with sand and mud.. Another safety advantage (I forgot).

Agree with you here - I hate having an octopus clipped off somewhere in the "triangle". They tend to pop out and drag on the reef. I don't use that approach, but many people do, especially with rental gear.

In general, I would go to my Air 2, monitor my air supply and keep the pony bottle for a real emergency.

Wait, you also have three second stages? Pony, primary and octopus?

I have had only a few out of air emergencies when diving. I don't think the presence or absense of the AIR 2 was relevant.

OK, lets hear about those!

As for the video, not sure what it PROVES, but it does SHOW that using Air 2 and sharing a primary is easy. I just thought it would be a cool sequence to capture with the GOpro on an extension pole. If you want to see a REAL out of air emergency on video, I can show that one too, although things didn't go quite so smoothly...LOL

Now we are getting somewhere...! Data! Bring it...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

OK, I don't have one, so I'll assume that you are right about this. But it sounds as if you are just referring to using it as a standard inflate/dump for the BC, not sure why you would be breathing off it routinely several times during every dive? Or do you mean you would just be holding it during the dive to adjust buoyancy? If so, not sure how that translates to practice sharing air.

But then again, it doesn't sound like you need much practice to deploy it for yourself... seems pretty simple to do. Is it just as easy to inflate and dump air from the BC during ascent, while you are breathing from it? Don't know, wouldn't think so, but I'll take your word if you say so...



Agree with you here - I hate having an octopus clipped off somewhere in the "triangle". They tend to pop out and drag on the reef. I don't use that approach, but many people do, especially with rental gear.



Wait, you also have three second stages? Pony, primary and octopus?




OK, lets hear about those!



Now we are getting somewhere...! Data! Bring it...

Apparently i am not making myself clear... If you have an AIR 2, just stick it in your mouth and swim up with it.. Do it every other dive. You WILL learn to use it effectively. It does not affect your dive at all, you just do a normal ascent and PRACTICE using an air 2.

Also, as has been mentioned in this thread, the air 2 was designed with the SP BC. They have ALWAYS had a pull dump on the opposite shoulder. So venting air when using the air 2 is the same as when using your normal reg. just pull the rear dump or the shoulder dump on the opposite side. You can take the Air 2 out of your mouth and dump air, but THAT would not be something you would want to manage when rescueing another diver.. your hands may be full. I guess you can also inflate it when breathing, just press the inflate button...Easy.

Data/video of a true loss of gas emergency that was not executed perfectly????...I posted this one over a year ago...You can skip to 1;50 if you like..I yell a lot,,,

[video=youtube_share;Bap2PxetarQ]http://youtu.be/Bap2PxetarQ[/video]

 

[saudio]

Wow. I'm trying to follow the sequence there. So, you ran out of air on your main tank, you had a pony reg bungeed around your neck, then called your son over, who reminded you to use the pony reg? Then the pony tank was turned off?

So did you turn the tank back on and surface with it? Or what?

I'm not sure I have that right.

 

[lowviz]

-pony should be 'charged' then turned off.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Wow. I'm trying to follow the sequence there. So, you ran out of air on your main tank, you had a pony reg bungeed around your neck, then called your son over, who reminded you to use the pony reg? Then the pony tank was turned off?

So did you turn the tank back on and surface with it? Or what?

I'm not sure I have that right.

You must be hell in the movie theater...

 

[chrpai]

-pony should be 'charged' then turned off.

So I've been told. I understand why... but I struggle in believing it. I sling my pony like a stage and have really good visibility of the 1st and 2nd stage. I have an extremely hard time believing that there is a scenario that I could any substantial amount of gas without noticing.

I'll also admit that I'm very anti-AIR2 even though I've never actually dove one. It just seems so obvious to me that it's a dumb idea but I really should try very, very hard to resist believing that conclusion until I've actually used one.

Still seems dumb though...

 

[lowviz]

OK, a good half the time you are exhaling. That's all you hear. A pony in the 'horizontal' position can (not asking you to trust me, but I'm just saying) dump a hell of a lot of gas before being discovered. BTDT with the kid.

 

[CT-Rich]

Let me get this straight...
Imagine the noobe confusion of trying to breath off a reg that is still clipped to a BCD.

What? It's not zip tied to me, it's on a mouthpiece keeper that prevents free flows and releases with a tug. It's been attached to my rig at the same place for 20 years and I know exactly where it is.

If you have a OOA situation you have two alternatives to grab, one of which will not provide air.

What are you talking about? Which one will not provide air?

Not complicated... You are sucking rust, you have two regulators other than your primary.... one is attached to your pony... one is attached to your main gas supply... (the one that you are presently sucking dry...) Death tapping on your shoulder, the pressure is on moments to LIVE!!!!

I am not sure how you can be saying that this or that is better than a combo.

I don't think I could have made myself more clear about why I believe a standard octopus is safer than a combo rig. Obviously you don't agree and that's OK with me.

I am sorry, I totally cannot understand why you are okay with wearing an octopus, and a pony into the water and then say that a Combo that reduces the mass and complexity of the gear being hauled around is going to make it less safe. There are no cases of Air II killing their users. There are cases of divers having there gear get caught up on debris and trapping them or having task loading on a narc'd out diver create problems possibly resulting in DEATH? Those are well documented.

To say that Air II create those hazards is unrealistic... Crappy training is by far the major cause of diver fatalities. Not knowing how to do an air share is more likely to kill you than an AIR II will. If you don't like them don't buy it... If you get one for X-mas, re-gift it to a diver friend you hate.... but to say there is a difference in safety I think is ridiculously un-fare to a product that has a 10 year + track record that as far as I know is completely clean.

 

[Frosty]

Hey guys Im really not understanding what the hassle is here with useing air 2's.
The way I see it is I am fitting a new piece of equipment to my rig.
That piece of equipment could be a torch.A computer,fins. No matter what it is Im going to put focus on figureing out how to use that piece of equipment propperly untill Im comfortable with it.
So Darn tootin Im gonna use the air2 in "octi" mode as regularly as I need to till its all working normally for me.

 

[lowviz]

Hey guys Im really not understanding what the hassle is here ...//...

Get with it, this is internet diving....