Razor sidemount system and training options

[bamafan]

The divers in the above refrenced video appear to be using lp 85's / hp 100's. That is a small steel tank by Florida standards. Show me a video of the Stealth / Razor with Lp 108's / 120's and multiple stages. The Stealth / Razor are not designed for that and that is a fairly common North Florida cave dive.

 

[gearhound]

The divers in the above refrenced video appear to be using lp 85's / hp 100's. That is a small steel tank by Florida standards. Show me a video of the Stealth / Razor with Lp 108's / 120's and multiple stages. The Stealth / Razor are not designed for that and that is a fairly common North Florida cave dive.

Hmm...a couple of ways to go with this.

Let's start out by saying the OP is from Singapore, is going to Coz, Bonaire, Roatan and Belize. I'm not sure what his chances are of renting Lp108's/120s are in those locations. And I don't think he'll be hauling tanks to all those locations. Like I said, there's a whole other world out there besides Florida.

The link I gave was of tourist divers going to Florida, renting steel tanks and doing a cave dive in Florida. Ginnie Springs is a fairly common cave dive for those visiting Florida.

I think it was Victor who stated in another thread that lp 85s are the tanks that Edd recommends for sidemount diving.

I don't believe Worthington is producing scuba tanks anymore, so Fabers are pretty much the way to go now for steels. I've had no issues diving them in my Stealth.

I won't be able to show you videos of Razor/Stealth with 108/120s with multiple stages in your Florida caves because you've already said that people don't do that in Florida.

Can we go the other way and can you please post video of your sidemount dives in 108/120s with multiple stages? I'm always open to learning and seeing other ways of doing things. Heck, I'm still signing up for courses. So I genuinely would appreciate seeing how you do it. I'm having problems seeing how you would mount the stages in a streamlined manner using the buttplate. I'm not a fan of the video Lamar has showing the "Edd" technique of mounting stages. I like, and use, the staging technique that Bogaerts uses in his videos. But, like I said, I'm open to learning.

Take your heavy 108s/120s and try going through some of the sidemount only caves in Mexico without damaging anything. My take is that it would be very difficult. That wouldn't be the ideal set up for a dive requiring finesse in my opinion.

 

[bamafan]

DPV dive second T to Stage rock: DPV dive second T to Stage rock - YouTube

The diver in the video has Lp 120's filled to 3600 psi and 2 al 80's. This is about 500 cubic feet of gas. The Florida caves are generally deeper and sometimes have high flow. This requires a greater volume of gas. To get close to the volume of gas the diver in the video is carrying with al 80's you would need about 6 of them. Is this really going to have less impact on the cave than the diver in the video?

I never said that the op was going to dive steel tanks. What I have been saying is the Florida rigs such as the Hollis SMS 100 shown in the video work great as is shown in the video but suck for al 80's. Now on the flip side your Razor / Stealth would look like a turtle on your back with the tank setup the diver in the video is using. I have said and will say it again when in Rome do as the Romans. They op was asking about Razor training and I posted that Florida was not the ideal place for it as some had stated.

---------- Post added March 7th, 2015 at 01:48 PM ----------

6 CYLINDERS SIDEMOUNT KICKS: 6 CYLINDERS SIDEMOUNT KICKS - YouTube

Please tell me why this video is a better way to carry almost 500 cubic feet of gas than the video in the post above? I am interested in learning why when a dive requires this volume of gas someone would go with al tanks over the setup in the video in the above post. I think it has more to do with $$. Al 80's are cheap and readily available so they are used alot where large gas volumes are not needed. The video you posted of the guys diving in Ginnie illustrates this point. They had over 200 cubic feet of gas assuming those are lp 85's. To do this with al 80's would require 3 - 4 al 80's. Do you nit think this is less efficent and will negatively impact the cave more than what the divers in the Ginnie video would. If they had lp 100's / lp 85's in Mexico I think they would be really popular.

 

[gearhound]

---------- Post added March 7th, 2015 at 01:48 PM ----------
If they had lp 100's / lp 85's in Mexico I think they would be really popular.

Let me just start out by saying Oliver looks like an awesome diver, and the stages look very streamlined.

I think you're making my point with your statement there vis a vis "rest of the world". What tanks are readily available in the majority of dive places that you may be travelling to.

The point I was making was that you can dive steels with the Razor/Stealth. The topic always then winds up, "but you can't dive these heavy steels with multiple stages". The targets always seem to shift. I don't own a Razor, but dive my Stealth frequently with lp85s, hp100s and hp120s.

I hesitate to think how difficult it would be, and the damage that would be done to the cave, doing dives like these with floppy heavy 120s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eJhInfPGXk

 

[nakatomi]

Let me just start out by saying Oliver looks like an awesome diver, and the stages look very streamlined.

Thank you, but just for the record, that's not me in the video, I was just the guy filming.

The point I was making was that you can dive steels with the Razor/Stealth. The topic always then winds up, "but you can't dive these heavy steels with multiple stages". The targets always seem to shift. I don't own a Razor, but dive my Stealth frequently with lp85s, hp100s and hp120s.

I hesitate to think how difficult it would be, and the damage that would be done to the cave, doing dives like these with floppy heavy 120s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eJhInfPGXk

I see your point. That's why most people use several different rigs, depending on the situation. I use a Nomad XT for cold water diving with steel tanks, two SMS100 (with different individual settings/mods) for steel tank cave diving. Finally I use a Razor clone and a Nomad LT for aluminum tank cave diving.

 

[stanleychan]

I think if you use razor, better to follow a razor official sidemount instructor. Because he knows very well every design of the BC and the original techniques relavent to it. Of cause, if you follow an instructor and he has learnt the original GSM course is also no problem.