This is a multi use sales pitch, that you and others have obviously "fallen for" and now promulgates as an urban myth.
Recommendation of BCD for young teen just starting
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This is a multi use sales pitch, that you and others have obviously "fallen for" and now promulgates as an urban myth.
Just last week as one of my regular client father / daughter teams and I were "ottering" out over a quarter mile from shore for one of their favorite dives, Dave had the biggest grin while he said "this is when I really feel I'm in Maui; watching the sun rise oner the shoulder of Haleakala, looking back at Keawakapu beach, South Maui and the mountain slopes.
It's part of the dive, it's over 20 minutes, it's not vertical or horizontal and this style of surface swim is done by divers of all BC types (or so I've read). Upright vertical at the surface is also part of many dives and done by divers of all BC types (or so I've read). On the 4th of July, before dropping on the Backside of Molokini, the whole group was bobbing vertical with big grins. Inverted vertical is also an enjoyed part of many divers dives, and most of my dives.
Definition of vertical - Merriam-Webster's Student Dictionary
Many of my most memorable dive moments have been just perfect in vertical body position; both upright and inverted.
I saw this pair of eagle rays from the surface, just above a 98 foot deep sand bottom, and asked my group if it would be OK for me to "dive bomb" for pictures. They unanimously gave a hearty yes! That 20 or so seconds powering straight down as fast as my free dive fins can propel me was pretty damn cool....
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This "escort pod" circumnavigated my group at an anchor line safety stop, with everyone upright vertical in the water, easily rotating and grinning ....
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Nearly everyone in the group is happily vertical when closely inspecting this ~5' tall black coral ....
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Perhaps these air breathers were mocking us ....
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The OP's question is regarding Monterey diving. I find it hard to imagine not being both upright and inverted on pretty much every kelp dive.
I'm calling many of the cyber diving sales pitches nonsensical negative catch phrases.
It's part of the dive, it's over 20 minutes, it's not vertical or horizontal and this style of surface swim is done by divers of all BC types (or so I've read). Upright vertical at the surface is also part of many dives and done by divers of all BC types (or so I've read). On the 4th of July, before dropping on the Backside of Molokini, the whole group was bobbing vertical with big grins. Inverted vertical is also an enjoyed part of many divers dives, and most of my dives.
Definition of vertical - Merriam-Webster's Student Dictionary
Merriam-Webster for Kids:
Many of my most memorable dive moments have been just perfect in vertical body position; both upright and inverted.
I saw this pair of eagle rays from the surface, just above a 98 foot deep sand bottom, and asked my group if it would be OK for me to "dive bomb" for pictures. They unanimously gave a hearty yes! That 20 or so seconds powering straight down as fast as my free dive fins can propel me was pretty damn cool....
[c]
[/c]This "escort pod" circumnavigated my group at an anchor line safety stop, with everyone upright vertical in the water, easily rotating and grinning ....
[c]
[/c]Nearly everyone in the group is happily vertical when closely inspecting this ~5' tall black coral ....
[c]
[/c]Perhaps these air breathers were mocking us ....
[c]
[/c]The OP's question is regarding Monterey diving. I find it hard to imagine not being both upright and inverted on pretty much every kelp dive.
I'm calling many of the cyber diving sales pitches nonsensical negative catch phrases.
halocline
Contributor
If you want to talk about nonsensical sales pitches, here are two: 1)BP/W systems (or back inflate soft BCs) push your face forward at the surface. 2)BP/W systems (or back inflate...)force divers into horizontal position under water.
The bubble of air in a wing or jack BC cell is going to rise to the highest point under water, and because it's usually a pretty small bubble, has very little impact on trim. That's determined primarily by weight distribution, and to a lesser extent, BC fit and stability.
To the OP, I'd definitely let your daughter try a rigid plate/hog harness/small wing. I bet she likes it. I've seen lots of kids in OW classes with jacket BCs that are far too loose really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water.
The bubble of air in a wing or jack BC cell is going to rise to the highest point under water, and because it's usually a pretty small bubble, has very little impact on trim. That's determined primarily by weight distribution, and to a lesser extent, BC fit and stability.
To the OP, I'd definitely let your daughter try a rigid plate/hog harness/small wing. I bet she likes it. I've seen lots of kids in OW classes with jacket BCs that are far too loose really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water.
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halemanō;5962826:The OP's question is regarding Monterey diving. I find it hard to imagine not being both upright and inverted on pretty much every kelp dive.
That's the problem, some divers don't understand your content is often a product of your imagination and assume it's based on experience.
Nice pics.
Thanks.
So *dave*, are you saying that always diving horizontal is the best way to dive kelp?
Part of what I imagine is due to what I have seen in nearly every movie and TV footage that has underwater scenes. I lived in the Monterey Bay area for 3 years, just prior to going to Florida to become an Instructor; nobody was preaching the "always horizontal" BS in '99. Even in my cave training, for the first part of Peacock it seems non vertical works, because my Instructor did it "parallel to the bottom" not horizontal, and entry/exit at Olsen Sink (sp?) was definitely not horizontal.
That's the problem, some divers don't understand your content is often a product of your imagination and assume it's based on experience.
So, questions have been asked in this thread, regarding the diver in question's training BC and any other BC's she may have used, with no reply.
Yet you seem to use your somewhat hyperbolic "bad OW class BC fit" observations of kids that might "really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water" (at depth?) even with a good fit BC, as the basis for a bet.
halocline
Contributor
halemanō;5964243:So, questions have been asked in this thread, regarding the diver in question's training BC and any other BC's she may have used, with no reply.
Yet you seem to use your somewhat hyperbolic "bad OW class BC fit" observations of kids that might "really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water" (at depth?) even with a good fit BC, as the basis for a bet.
I really don't understand what you are objecting to or trying to say, but I do think that your opinion of jacket BCs vs BP/W systems is completely worthless, because as you have admitted before, you've never dove with a BP/W. Yet for some strange reason, you seem to have some bizarre drive to continually post on the subject, often with ridiculous ideas, such as the one that a jacket BC allows divers to dive in any position they want while BP/W systems do not. What's it to you?
The continually adjustable webbing harness and rigid plate allows for an excellent fit for practically any diver. Jacket BCs rarely fit as well or offer comparable tank stability. And BTW, that's from experience.
Shark Bait!
Contributor
It is amazing how a person can ask for recommendations for a BC, and is open to all suggestions as he never specified to any particular brand or type, and there is always 1 yaa hoo who has to derail the topic.
As for halemano's rant on vertical diving.. LOL! I'm sorry but i never said anything about a diver should start, end, or all areas in between stay horizontal. I understand that there are some instances where a person will be vertical while diving, rather it be sight seeing, entering/exiting a cave or wreck, or simply wanting to have a broader field of view. That doesn't change the fact that still the majority of your diving "under water" is horizontal unless you tend to teach your classes differently. maybe you should start a new PADI specialty course: Vertical Diving
I live in FL so i shore dive alot, and i can accept the fact that i will be vertical at the surface when i start my decent, or on a boat dive waiting to be picked up or for my buddy to jump in. But that very short time frame doesn't warrant me to want to use a jacket style 40+# BC for the simple fact that it will float me out the water up to my chest. I enjoy my diving and good trim makes diving all the more fun. The only way i can see a person doing the majority of any dive vertical is maybe drift diving, since you are just going with the current..
The OP asked for recommendations and you have yet to post something of any use other then your super uber personal experience with vertical diving and surface swimming. I recommended the Zeagle Express Tech because it is really a great functioning BC. Versatile, functional, minimal and very durable. And for the price, it is really a great kit to get for a child, who will grow, or adult if you don't know if it is even something they will continue to do for the rest of there lives, but if they do this rig will grow with them or they can simply upgrade. I got this for my 16 yr old son last yr which has grown 2" and gained 15#. Bought $10 worth of web harness and waaallaa a perfect fit.
To the OP, there is no right decision when making gear choices, there is only the right option for how you dive know and the amount of knowledge you have at the time. Wants, environments, and needs change, as they change so does your "right" decision for what is best for you. When buying gear for your child you want to get the safest most versatile gear for them. Do your research and get what is right for you.
As for halemano's rant on vertical diving.. LOL! I'm sorry but i never said anything about a diver should start, end, or all areas in between stay horizontal. I understand that there are some instances where a person will be vertical while diving, rather it be sight seeing, entering/exiting a cave or wreck, or simply wanting to have a broader field of view. That doesn't change the fact that still the majority of your diving "under water" is horizontal unless you tend to teach your classes differently. maybe you should start a new PADI specialty course: Vertical Diving
I live in FL so i shore dive alot, and i can accept the fact that i will be vertical at the surface when i start my decent, or on a boat dive waiting to be picked up or for my buddy to jump in. But that very short time frame doesn't warrant me to want to use a jacket style 40+# BC for the simple fact that it will float me out the water up to my chest. I enjoy my diving and good trim makes diving all the more fun. The only way i can see a person doing the majority of any dive vertical is maybe drift diving, since you are just going with the current..
The OP asked for recommendations and you have yet to post something of any use other then your super uber personal experience with vertical diving and surface swimming. I recommended the Zeagle Express Tech because it is really a great functioning BC. Versatile, functional, minimal and very durable. And for the price, it is really a great kit to get for a child, who will grow, or adult if you don't know if it is even something they will continue to do for the rest of there lives, but if they do this rig will grow with them or they can simply upgrade. I got this for my 16 yr old son last yr which has grown 2" and gained 15#. Bought $10 worth of web harness and waaallaa a perfect fit.
To the OP, there is no right decision when making gear choices, there is only the right option for how you dive know and the amount of knowledge you have at the time. Wants, environments, and needs change, as they change so does your "right" decision for what is best for you. When buying gear for your child you want to get the safest most versatile gear for them. Do your research and get what is right for you.
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