Regulator freeflow? How to deal with this?

[TSandM]

As already stated, both second stages may not free flow if the first stage fails. In fact, whatever line has the least resistance will go -- sometimes that's the LP inflator or drysuit inflator, too. You really cannot diagnose where the problem lies in the water, although if you can get the second stage to quiet down and it doesn't recur, it's PROBABLY the 2nd stage.

Freeflows can be caused by dirt or grit in the first OR second stage, or by icing up of the first stage (a common cause of freeflows at depth in cold water), or by any mechanical problem in the first stage that leads to an IP higher than the 2nd stage will retain.

 

[Bigd2722]

Hard to beat HOG/Edge for the price

 

[Bubbletrubble]

My first suggestion is that you buy your own quality equipment and have it serviced regularly. That is the best prevention.

If you're going to dive a lot, my opinion is you should buy your own regs and maintain them well.

So it appears that my own regulator is on the horizon if I'm to continue diving. Are there specific brands that have a reputation for these kinds of problems? From reading these forums, the general consensus seems to be that any mid-range regulator would be fine, but I've had other people tell me that certain brands tend to be flaky. And considering my luck, I should probably get the most reliable one for the price, hehe.

If you are going to be a diver, then you need to commit to the sport and own your own gear!

Hard to beat HOG/Edge for the price

Seems kind of silly to recommend that the OP buy his own reg...let alone a certain brand...to address an issue that was most likely normal reg operation.

This is an education issue -- something that should definitely be covered in basic OW class.

@Cosmographer:
To revise what beaverdivers wrote...
If you are going to be a diver, then you need to commit to the sport and learn how your gear works.
It's great that you asked the question here. Hopefully, some of the responses have helped.

herman's post says it all.

 

[RonFrank]

Regulator issues are rather uncommon.

The second stage may free flow if facing up but that is normal. Just stop it immediately, like before you loose a half a tank of air. Keep your octo facing down. My octo free flows at least once a dive trip. As I immediately stop it, this is a non-issue. I would rater have an easy breathing second.

My experience is that if a reg is going to misbehave it will do so at the surface. Get you reg serviced every 100-200 dives or 3 years. That means for pros diving almost daily 2-3 times a year. For most of us that means every 3 years. If you do something foolish like soak the first stage with the cap off plan on service now. Otherwise you get junk growing inside the 1st stage and it will fail at some point. Most divers get there reg serviced more than necessary. Its not bad unless your LDS has poor technicians. Always try out your reg after service before going on a trip. A reg will fail more often than not right out of service. Sad but true.

 

[DevonDiver]

There have been U.S. travel warnings about how dangerous SCUBA rental gear is in some countries.

Can you reference these please?
Context is important. I wouldn't want anyone to think that you were spreading panic just to drive up your own sales.

Is it specific countries that have "dangerous scuba rental gear"? i.e. All scuba gear in Venezuela is dangerous?

Or is it specific manufacturers of scuba gear across a broad range of countries? i.e. All non-ScubaPro gear is globally dangerous?

Added to that... since when did a 'freeflow' become such a great danger? It's a basic Open Water skill. There's a spectrum of resolutions for a recreational diver, in recreational depths, with a recreational buddy and recreational diving training. Definitely not something to fear-monger about.

Also, in the context of this thread - freeflow is a primary danger in cold-water environments. Using an inappropriate regulator in cold water is about the biggest risk factor around to cause this. Do your "U.S. travel warnings" state that northern U.S. states, or Canada, are the ones with the dangerous scuba gear?

As far as recommendations for regs., the Scubapro MK25/S600, MK17/A700 or the MK25 or MK 17/ G250 in yoke or DIN are excellent choices.

I have heard from many cold-water divers that the MK25/S600 wasn't a good choice for cold water. Higher risk of freeflow...apparently.

I'm surprised that you'd give it such a positive recommendation, given that feedback. Especially on a thread that is discussing freeflow...

I'd expect a Scubapro dealer to be very cognizant of the pros and cons of their products. And yet, you maintain the entire range of ScubaPro regulators is an "excellent choice".... but don't specify what choice/factors/issues are being considered. A universal "excellent choice"? The whole range? Hmmmm.....

Is this why there are travel warnings about "dangerous scuba gear".. because some U.S. dealers are recommending inappropriate regulators for certain environments?

If you are going to be a diver, then you need to commit to the sport and own your own gear!

...or you will die?

You missed the bit about it being "life support equipment". That always hits the spot...

You will know if it is the 1st stage causing the Free Flow if both your primary and secondary 2nd stages are Free Flowing.

Confusingly worded advice for a diver who is trying to diagnose a fault. Double free-flow is rare. Your wording might be interpreted by some to mean that it isn't a 1st stage failure unless both 2nd stage regulators are free-flowing.

If the 1st stage is at fault (cold-water icing being by far the most common), then it will initially free-flow the breathed regulator. Once locked open (fail-safe) the initial venting of gas from the primary 2nd stage will outlet the freeflow. It is unlikely to trigger the alternate 2nd stage/AAS to freeflow also... unless that regulator is subsequently breathed or purged.

Regulator issues are rather uncommon.

Absolutely!

Nice to see some balance to the fear-mongering (sales driven effort).

I saw (and experienced) a couple of free-flows during my first decade of diving... in the UK.... in winter. All were icing problems - and connected to inadequate procedures or non-cold water specific regulators. I used to use some crappy Dacor Viper regs... they iced on me at 34m and froze my teeth together on ascent (literally). Not pleasant. That was user error - they weren't ideal for the water temperature (3 Celsius) and I shouldn't have surface breathed them on the buddy check, because that enabled the initial ice formation. Lessons learned - it never happened again.

I've never seen an uncontrollable free-flow in a warm water environment. 10 years, 4000+ dives and not a single one. So...either the rental equipment is of a higher quality in South-East Asia (hmmm?) or this "big danger" doesn't really exist...

 

[Rich Keller]

After reading the Near Misses forum (great learning tool for noobs, imo), it occurred to me that I ought to post a question about what I guess is called regulator freeflow. As a noob myself, I've been on 9 dives with 4 different operators in 4 different countries. I mention this because despite having so few dives under my belt, I've had regulator freeflow issues with 3 out of the 4 operators (all rented equipment).

First, let me make sure I understand the term "freeflow" properly. This is when the 2nd stage gushes out air despite the user not inhaling, right? So I've had this happen twice when we were checking gear on shore and twice while floating in the water (either at the beginning or the end of the dive).

It was not cold, and I would think regulator maintenance wouldn't be the likely culprit since it happened with 3 different operators, all in different countries. But whatever the cause may be, if I have this happen again, what should I do? Our DM/Instructor seemed to slap the mouthpiece against their palm to get it to stop. On one occasion (maybe 2) this didn't work, and they turned the valve off and on to get thee regulator working again. One time, they swapped out the regulator.

Is this a problem that people have a "quick fix" for (ie. is tapping the mouthpiece a standard routine?), or is this a more serious problem? Since I don't want to rely on my DMs to fix these glitches for me, I'd like to know what the SOP should be under these circumstances. Also, have I just been unlucky in experiencing a serious problem so often (relatively speaking) or is this a common, minor problem that people deal with all the time and resolve in a few seconds?

First check you reg on land, if it is not working on land it is not going to work on the boat. The perfectly adjusted reg will breath very easy on land but not free flow. In the water it should free flow with the mouth piece facing up but it should stop when you point the mouth piece down. This is how you want your primary 2nd stage set not your octo, that should be set a little harder to breath as you do not want it to free flow during your dive. If it free flows more then that you can take the cover off and adjust the nut that holds the demand valve lever in place. In the case of free flowing loosen the nut a quarter turn and try the reg again. If it still free flows try loosening it another quarter turn and so on until you get the right adjustment. If this does not work then you have a parts problem and in the case of rented gear you will not have spare parts to fix it. The attached is a very simple view of how the second stage works. If you get to the point where you want to buy your own reg I would suggest the HOG as it was made to be easily serviced by the diver and HOG has courses to teach you exactly how to do that.

How its work - Scuba Dive Regulator 2nd Stage - www.Scubatraveller.com - YouTube

 

[TracyN]

You might try smacking it. I had this happen to me last week on a dive. First dive was fine. On the second dive as I descended down to 70 feet my reg started to free flow. I simply took it out and smacked it and it worked fine.

 

[ajduplessis]

Free flows are a mere inconveniance and with the ammont of practise you have had it should be a non issue. I tilt my head sideways during diving freeflows to keep the bubbles from dislodging/moving my mask while keeping the the reg about an inch away from my mouth.

With properly maintained gear this should very rarely happen. A quick adjustment to the cracking pressure should also help resolve most free flow issue. Some regs also have a pre-dive switch that reduces the CP to stops regs from freefowing at the surface.

I would consider buying my own regs if you can justify it.

 

[DevonDiver]

Free flows are a mere inconveniance and with the ammont of practise you have had it should be a non issue. I tilt my head sideways during diving freeflows ...with properly maintained gear this should very rarely happen.

All true, except for cold-water/icing freeflows.

From personal experience, breathing from a freeflow in icy water isn't pleasant... at all. When it happened to me, it quickly coated my teeth in ice. I can't even begin to describe.....

Also, maintenance isn't the issue with cold-water free-flows. The issues are the suitability of the reg for the temperature, the need to amend basic procedures to prevent icing and the need to 'protect' scuba kit from cold temperatures/frosting before water entry.

 

[Ayisha]

I have heard from many cold-water divers that the MK25/S600 wasn't a good choice for cold water. Higher risk of freeflow...apparently.

That is true. Scubapro MK20's and 25's freeflow the most often of any regs that I have seen/heard about in our extremely cold water or during ice diving. Often it is because they don't have the environmental kit, but some MK20's/25's freeflow even though they are environmentally sealed.

Apeks has high performance regs that are popular here, but if they are tuned incorrectly and too easy to breathe, they have also been known to freeflow when others don't.

The Sherwood Blizzard is a work horse and I have never seen/heard of anyone ever having a freeflow with it. I have been using the Blizzard for 10 years primarily in the extremely cold water (38C +)of the Great Lakes and absolutely love it and have never had a freeflow or any issues with it. Not all Sherwood's are created equal. The new Sherwood SR1 is already known to commonly freeflow even in somewhat cold conditions and mid-range depth - not only in extremely cold or deep environments.

A reg that is suitable for extremely cold water can be used anywhere. A reg that is suitable for warm water is not suitable elsewhere. Here is a link to the Sherwood Blizzard so you can see the features: Welcome to Sherwood Scuba!