Regulator Frustrations

[keeperguy64]

My wife and I bought two sets of regulators from Deep6, the first about 3 years ago and the second 1 year ago. They've got about 60 and 40 dives on them respectively. We wash them carefully after each of our weekend trips and leave them to soak (pressurized) in freshwater after longer live aboard trips. They're stored in padded cases inside the house. Despite this, it seems like each time we get ready for a trip one of them has a leak. I feel as though we take good care of them and am frustrated with the leaks. The issues we've had are:

• After about 25 dives the 1st set (mine) developed IP creep. Fixed by Deep6 for free (except for shipping).
• After 40 total dives one of the second stages on the 1st set had a slow leak. Fixed by Deep6 as part of the free first service.
• After 35 total dives the 2nd set has developed IP creep causing leaks. I'm going to send them into Deep6 to get fixed.
• The 2nd set has also had trouble consistently sealing with a tank. It seems as though you have to crack the valve exactly correctly to avoid leaks. Other regulators on the same tank have no issue, and the problem persists across different tanks.

I do appreciate that Deep6 customer service has been willing and able to help in the past. Despite that, the experience of owning these regs has been annoying.

Is this just what life as a somewhat infrequent diver who owns regulators is like? In my ideal world, we could be confident that they're ready for the next trip. Are there better options out there? I don't mind splurging to find two sets that breathe well and are (reasonably) hassle free.

One final question: if we do get something new, I'm thinking of getting DIN fittings because they seem more reliable - is that actually the case?

 

[Shabaday]

We switched all our regulators to DIN. We also dive Atomic ST1's when we travel. So far no issues. The Atomic ST1's first stage weigh quite a bit, the second stages are very lightweight. I would think an Atomic B2 sealed first stage would be a good lesser expensive option. They say all the Atomics should breathe the same. I have 3 Atomic M1's, 2 ST''s and 2 Z2 Octo's and the ST1 second stages breathe the nicest for us so we stick with them.
I normally dove a ScubaPro Mk19 evo/G260 combo but last time I dove it I had an odd situation that the second stage became hard to breathe from after soaking and returning home. I took it slightly apart and readjusted it and back to normal.
The plus side of ScubaPro is that they are worldwide and common to find places that can service them.
I think a Mk19 evo or a Mk25 evo with a G260 /R195 Octo second would be a great reg system for you guys. There are some people who don't like the unsealed Mk25 but it has been a staple for years and years.
What does your LDS sell and service?
Atomic might be a good choice as well for you guys

 

[tbone1004]

sorry to hear those issues, I own 7 sets of them and haven't experienced those issues though mine are all DIN.

to your specific points
1-that is unfortunately just bad luck if it was 1st stage IP creep. Apeks is having another bad batch of seats and it truly is just bad luck. Infrequent use doesn't help, but it is just bad luck.
2-that is normal behavior. Second stages tuned very light need annual adjustment as the seats take a set from the crown. It is part of why a lot of dive shops don't set them as light as they can be because they do tend to leak after 25-30 dives.
3-same as 1st
4-that is likely a yoke issue. Yokes are very sensitive to o-ring quality as well as the valve. It's very irritating.

It's possible you would have had similar issues with any regulator set that you had purchased, unfortunate that you had it with these but I it is not something we don't see on a regular basis from a myriad of different manufacturers over the years.

 

[LandonL]

@keeperguy64 was each incidence mentioned in the emails individually without reference to the previous? I would like to see if we can get both sets back so we can evaluate them.

@tbone1004 gave a good explanation above. We tend to tune second stages to a 1.0-1.1 for cracking pressure, so occasionally they can leak at the maximum output setting once they break in. Simply tune down the adjustment to stop the slow leak, or we can tune them to a higher cracking effort if you wish.

Is there any damage to the seating surface on the 2nd reg where it connects to the tank? This can cause a leak. There is also more variability in the yoke tank valves than with DIN. Either way, send them both in to us and we can evaluate, fix, and/or replace them for you. Give me a call and let me see if I can get this sorted.

 

[Bigbella]

Is this just what life as a somewhat infrequent diver who owns regulators is like? In my ideal world, we could be confident that they're ready for the next trip. Are there better options out there? I don't mind splurging to find two sets that breathe well and are (reasonably) hassle free.

One final question: if we do get something new, I'm thinking of getting DIN fittings because they seem more reliable - is that actually the case?

The short answer is no.

It seems to be brand dependent, nowadays, more than anything else. There should be no reason whatsoever, for malfunctioning after so little time -- especially given the level of care that you've described. IP creep after a few dozen dives? Ridiculous -- though I have heard similar accounts about both Deep6 and Apeks regulators having issues.

My regulators often see hundreds of dives before I overhaul mine -- and certainly not for malfunctioning or even creep; but, simply from force of habit, since I service my own . . . when I get around to it.

On the subject of DIN, I was sold on them by the late 1970s, since my regulators were provided with a screw-on yoke and a DIN fitting, from day-one . . .

 

[Shabaday]

to your specific points
1-that is unfortunately just bad luck if it was 1st stage IP creep. Apeks is having another bad batch of seats and it truly is just bad luck. Infrequent use doesn't help, but it is just bad luck.

What bad batches of seats are you talking about with Apeks? I heard the 2019 and later white paper backed service kits have had zero issues.....What are you talking about?

 

[tbone1004]

What bad batches of seats are you talking about with Apeks? I heard the 2019 and later white paper backed service kits have had zero issues.....What are you talking about?

regs with 2018 kits are still being used and problems are still being found. I would be very careful with zero issues, I have never seen a lot of HP seats have 0 issues. Maybe not many, but there are always isolated incidents. Point of that was that the HP seats all come from a very limited number of sources, same with the o-rings, so don't attribute things like HP creep due to bad HP seats with a specific regulator brand because they're all susceptible to it.

Either way though like I said, I have 7 sets of these, all but 2 with over 100 dives on them since I just bought them a few months ago and 2 sets of them are up over 400 dives by now and are about 2 years old. Haven't touched them other than tweaking the 2nd stages every 6 months or so and they're all fine.
@LandonL has piped in with curiosity of what is going wrong because that is abnormal behavior for those regulators. If it means replacing them because there was some sort of defect in the 1st stage they certainly will replace them under warranty.

 

[TheRealScubaSteve]

One final question: if we do get something new, I'm thinking of getting DIN fittings because they seem more reliable - is that actually the case?

Yes, they are much easier to seal. If not seated well, yokes like to extrude o-rings. Guide the mating surface into the valve (push and hole against o-ring) with one hand and then screw to tighten with other hand. Can be a bit of a pain, but quality o-rings make a big difference.

When your second stage leaks, are you able to stop it by covering the mouthpiece with finger, tongue, or hand? Many times they'll crack but can be stopped. As mentioned above, de-tuning a bit should solve this if it's bothersome.

Deep6 also offers service classes unless something has changed.

 

[Tournesol2000]

I have a set of Deep6 regs. I’m an occasional diver. Never had an issue, so your case looks like an exception.
@LandonL has commented so hopefully once they return your regs they will work flawlessly.
Landon serviced my regs last year on a trip to Ft Lauderdale. After 2 years and 24 dives , the regs were still fine but I asked him to service anyway. The man has precision on tuning the regs. It was amazing.
I am very happy with my regs and am glad I own them.
I hope your situation gets resolved.
Let us know.

 

[rhwestfall]

Are we talking creep or drift? Creep is an ongoing increase, that if left unremedied, would either cause a venting release at the second stage that continues to increase violently, or if it didn't release, cause catastrophic destruction (burst hoses, failed fittings and possibly explosion/projectiles) as pressure exceeds design of devices. Drift is a higher point of IP but still a lock-up. The issue becomes that if the second stage is tuned to the edge (and we all want a perfect breather), even a "normally accepted amount of drift" may cause the second stage to vent, but no dangerous pressures are attained.

NONE of this is specific to Deep6.....

Many times shops tune regulators away from peak performance because things will change as the seats settle in, and that can result in a return trip to the shop, and an unhappy consumer.

Now for my opinion:

The folks dealing Deep6, despite providing full service options, I feel generally follow a model of the owner having "basic understanding" and "ability to self address" minor situations. Your regs are likely at or near there best possible setting for performance. It can and will change, and they haven't set it with conservatism in mind.

Maybe that is a flaw....