Removing and Replacing BC underwater with weight pouches

[vixtor]

Like many other apparently crazy things you have to do underwater for various courses, the act of removing and putting the bcd back on has a few different purposes: to build up confidence in your ability to do anything submerged, to test your task loading comfort level and to teach you that you can really do this thing, in case you would ever need it (when you are severely entangled or maybe when you want to do crazy stuff like breathing directly from the tank valve).

Now, chances to ever need it are pretty slim - the best thing would be to pay attention to your environment and never get entangled so bad that you cannot de-tangle or cut yourself out without removing the bcd. Further more, we are talking here about recreational scuba, not tech, even for the DM level, so you will always have a buddy to help you.

Looking at the above purposes of the exercise, I see no reason to leave the BCD out of your hand. Even if you remove it, you will still hold it with one hand. In any real life scenario where you need to remove the BCD, there is no good reason to drop it out of your hand, because even in emergency, it is still your air supply, isn't it? As long as you hold it, no matter how buoyant, you'll be able to do it.

Now, if this is that exercise where you leave the BCD on the bottom, swim to the surface, then swim back to it and put it on, then you really need a weight belt. You might be able to swim down with enough force, but equalizing will be difficult if you stress so much. And you will not be able to control the ascent first anyway, so you will be like a submarine missile.

There was even a crazier version of this exercise in the past (i think nobody still does it), which required full removal of your equipment and then putting it back on (including the exposure protection if the sea was warm enough to do it). Again, you always kept the weights somehow, and took care of floating parts of equipment. It was just a crazy mess to build up confidence anyway, not something useful.

 

[Zog]

Even when I had a BC with integrated weights (SeaQuest Balance), I used a weight belt to distribute my weight. Used 4 pounds in the back pocket as counter weights, and 10 pounds on my belt. Never got entangled in the kelp here in California, but it was nice to know I could take the BC off without shooting to the surface. Now I have a BP/W set up. I still use a weight belt with it. We used to practice taking all the gear off at the bottom of the pool, and surface, then swimming back down and put everything back on including your mask, BC, fins, etc. Do they still practice that?

 

[Adobo]

The whole reason this skill exists is so that a diver who is entangled can remove the scuba unit and untangle themselves.. Right?

To me, this is an absolutely essential skill and I must be rather clumsy underwater, but I have had to do it dozens of times while diving solo.

So why in the world, are people wearing scuba rigs that prevent them from safely doing this? Why is it acceptable to do all kinds of crazy accommodations to be able to marginally complete a class requirement? Shouldn't everyone be able to do it without much trouble in the gear they dive in every day?

Really? Dozens of times? What are you getting tangled in?

---------- Post added June 18th, 2015 at 12:28 AM ----------

Everyone's different of course, but do you really need a 7 mil for that?

If that's what it takes for the diver to feel comfortable, then that's what it takes, right? I mean, its not a contest of who can tolerate being cold. It's a recreational activity.

I used a 5mil suit in 80degree water last week. I can see why someone would want 7 mil for 69 degree water. In fact, maybe the thing I would say is, if you can't do it with a 5 mil, maybe you ought to think about a drysuit.

 

[Soggy_Diver]

Hi,

Also working on my DM. I use the same solution as Zog and Blatter, splitting weights between the belt and the BC.

In my cold water gear (7mm farmer john and jacket, boots, hood, gloves), I use 24 lbs: 8 on the weight belt, 12 in the integrated weight pockets, and 4 in the trim pockets.

 

[scubadada]

I would also wear a 7 mm wetsuit in 69 degree water

I have had to do a ditch and don once to untangle my flag line from my reg/tank when diving solo.

If I were the OP, I would split my weight between BC and a belt to perform the skill

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Really? Dozens of times? What are you getting tangled in?

---t.

fishing line, my dive float line... the normal stuff.. I love the comment.. even as a DM you will always have a buddy to help you out in a real emergency.

Years ago, my brother and I used to dive together. He used more air than me and we were about the sme size. So we would often just switch scuba units on ocean dives in 90 ft or so half way through the dive.

 

[archer1960]

I'm glad you asked this question, because I was wondering the same thing. I'm newly certified (17 dives since cert last year). All the skills, and a week long diving to Cozumel were all done with a 3mm full suit and weight belt. Removing and replacing the BC were no trouble. The big trouble I had was with weight *distribution*; I was very feet-heavy and ended up bicycling most of the week. Loosening the belt up so I could pull it up around my rib cage helped for being able to swim horizontally, but if I ever turned up, the belt would drop down again. The total weight was pretty much perfect: my safety stops were done with a nearly empty BC, and I held my depth with breathing, so the only issue was distribution of the weight.

Now I'm in New England water at 60F and wearing a new weight-integrated BC and a 7mm wetsuit, hood and gloves. I haven't tried the doff-and-don skill in these conditions yet. The integrated weight BC gives me a much better weight distribution, though I still need to tweak my trim a bit. I expect it would be difficult if I'm in shallow water where my suit is buoyant. I like the idea of a weight harness carrying some of the weight, with suspenders to allow me to consistently position it vertically where I need it. What would be the recommendation for how much weight in the BC vs in the harness? 60/40 or so? My total is 30lb right now and I'm just a bit over-weighted . I expect I'll end up at 26-28. I'm thinking 10-12 ditchable in the BC and 14-16 in the harness?

 

[Diver0001]

Hello all,

I am working on some of my skills in my local lake this summer in preparation for doing my dive master course this coming winter.

The one skill that has me stumped is the removal and replacement of the BC while underwater. Being that my BC has weight pouches as soon as I take it off I am buoyant in my 7mm wet suit and I am gone. Right now a 7mm is necessary as I live in Canada and my lake is a chilly 69 degrees. Ouch.

Obviously I did it in my ow course, but it was pretty sad. Two instructors had to hold me down and I flooded my mask laughing each time. I can do it if I take out a weight pouch and stuff it down my wetsuit, but I would eventually like to do my instructors course and I hardly think that is demonstration quality.

So, how do I remove and replace my BC underwater with weight pouches? Or do I just wear a weight belt that day. I know if i ever needed to really remove it for a real reason stuffing the weight pouch down my wetsuit kind of works, although I feel like I should practice that some more because it's a little difficult to pull off.

Any advice is appreciated. Links to videos are even more appreciated. I'd prefer not to switch to a weight belt. I can never weight them right and I think this is a pretty important skill. I'd like to be able to do it horizontal like I would if I was in the middle of a dive and discovered my air was off or I was caught in kelp, but one thing at a time , right?

Thanks

Bella, this is a good question. It's one that comes up with respect to weight integrated BCD's but also with respect to some technical configurations if you decide to go that route.

Weight integrated BCD's and technical sets tend to be very negative. The diver is underneath it and pushing up against the set while the set is pushing down. If everything is in balance, you're neutral. We used to call this a "basket and blimp" setup because the basket only works when it's under the blimp.

So what happens when you have to take it off? First of all, you'll soon discover that it's very impractical to don/doff a "basket and blimp" configuration. There have also been accidents related to misjudging this. In one case a number of years ago a British diver was found in a wreck pinned to the ceiling of the space he was in while his set was on the floor.... the regulator hose was just a little too short.

But ok, you're going to need to do it for your course, so what's the trick.....? this is what you want to know. Well, if the "basket" gets above the blimp and it's not attached, it will just float away? Right? So the obvious conclusion is that you need to hold onto it. The set is going to be negative so when you slip out of it, you need to get above it and give it a big-ol "bear hug" and hold on. With a little practice you'll be able to manipulate the inflator so you don't lose buoyancy control. Getting back in takes a little practice too because you can't "free float" with an arm free while you slip in. So flipping it over your head or swimming under it with straps loose until you're back to "basket and blimp" diving before you deal with the straps are the two options people chose most. In terms of looking good doing it, over-the-head will give you more points.

For the demo's there's really only one way to cope, which is to put your weight on a weight belt. If this isn't the way you usually dive then go ahead and practice basket-and-blimp technique on your own time and just use a weightbelt to get through the skill. Even if you move 1/2 of your weight to a weightbelt you will cut down the complications by a significant margin.

Hope that helps.

R..

---------- Post added June 18th, 2015 at 03:35 PM ----------

There was even a crazier version of this exercise in the past (i think nobody still does it), which required full removal of your equipment and then putting it back on (including the exposure protection if the sea was warm enough to do it). Again, you always kept the weights somehow, and took care of floating parts of equipment. It was just a crazy mess to build up confidence anyway, not something useful.

In my opinion, Vixtor is right. Equipment R&R is a good equipment familiarization exercise that challenges the diver with a task loading element. As a practical diving skill is has very limited utility.

That said, I have actually taken off my set once while diving outside of training. I was in a wreck and got snagged on something and couldn't get out. What had happened is that a piece of metal had slipped, unbelievably, *right* in between the tank valve and A clamp. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it back out again. My buddy was out of sight at that moment and I loosened my straps and was in the process of rolling over so I could get a better look at it when my buddy arrived. I think without any training I may have settled on this solution anyway but having some training with it made the decision easier.

R..

 

[UserNameBella]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

I will be diving the 7mm in my lake probably for the rest of the year, so I can't change that. I'm just guessing the temp as I don't wear my computer while diving there. It is only 10 ft deep so I don't need the computer. This is Northern Ontario I live in. It's only 20 degrees celsius here during the hottest part of the day right now. I am diving 16 lbs fresh water, but I hope to shave off two more lbs in deeper water when actually diving and not just practicing drills. I am super buoyant naturally. I have tiny bones and lots of chub, I float which with the darn wet suit makes it harder. I'm doing my DM in warn ocean water. I can technically do my diving in just a skin suit there. I probably will as I was hot in a 2mm shorty. Being Canadian has it's advantages when it comes to diving as our idea of cold is different than some divers. For me cold is when you turn blue and shiver.

I'm going to try to either A) ride it like a bronco or B) place it on my knee. I tried the knee one in class, and it stayed on my knee but I was upside down. If all else fails I guess it is a belt for me.

The problem with a belt is that the dive shops tend to have old ones with bad teeth and I've lost a few of them or that they sit uncomfortably.

I figure if I am lucky enough to live on a little lake that is clear and shallow I should practice as much as I can so I can dive more while I am down south and train less. Although there may be a new learning curve once I get back in salt water.

 

[Water Boy76]

I give props to you cold water divers. If I had to wear a 7mm for every dive I would take up ice fishing.