Review: DRIS 28lb BP/W System

[bushman66]

Thanks SeaJay. I sort of suspected that (i.e. the BCD being more buoyant than the BP/W), and that's what I hope to get to. My divemaster on the liveaboard said I had done a good job of mastering my buoyancy by the end of the trip...only needed to set my BCD at the bottom and then didn't touch it again. I felt like I could have lost a bit more weight. My only concern is being able to maintain my ascent rate and hold my safety stop.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Exercise: With an empty tank and an empty BC, float at the surface head-up. Take a full breath of air and hold it. Stop swimming. You should float exactly at eye level - that is, the water should bisect your mask. Add or subtract weight to correct.

That should nail your weighting - and show you how well you've already done in getting your weighting down pat. Sounds like you are already pretty close to nailed.

From there, take six pounds off of your belt and put them in the BC's trim pockets on either side of the tank to simulate a backplate's weighting... Then work on trim. The BC should never shift you uncontrollably into any position. You should be able to take a position in the water - usually but not always prone and horizontal - and stay there without having to fin or scull your hands.

For a really advanced trim exercise, try this: Assume a prone (horizontal) position midway in the water column and float there, like a skydiver. If your knees are straight, you should tilt up. If you bring your heels to your butt, you should tilt down. This is aided by heavy fins like Scubapro Jets or ankle weights if you have lightweight plastic fins.

Of course, sculling or finning can screw up the results, so don't do either when running those tests.

The "bend knees to tilt up or down" exercise is called a Center of Gravity Drill, or a CofG drill.

Dive Right In, what does your shop charge for a 7' primary hose? What about a whole hose package: 7' primary, 22" or 24" backup, 24" lp inflator, and 24" hp spg hose? Can you get us a good deal on brass and glass Thermo spgs?

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

SimplyScuba, what does your shop charge for a 7' primary hose? What about a whole hose package: 7' primary, 22" or 24" backup, 24" lp inflator, and 24" hp spg hose? Can you get us a good deal on brass and glass Thermo spgs?

<Looks Around> LOL......do you mean Dive Right In Scuba??

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Why does the wing not have slots for the cam bands? I defintitely want my rig to be as secure as possible and to me, that would mean that the cam bands go through the plate and through the wing and then around the tank.

This product looks like the tank cam bands are completely external to the the backplate and everything is held together by the two bolts that secure the STA to the BP. Is that correct? If so why?

 

[Deep South Divers]

<Looks Around> LOL......do you mean Dive Right In Scuba??

Ummmm... I am such a dumbass. Fixed. Yes, can you get us a deal?

 

[bushman66]

Exercise: With an empty tank and an empty BC, float at the surface head-up. Take a full breath of air and hold it. Stop swimming. You should float exactly at eye level - that is, the water should bisect your mask. Add or subtract weight to correct.

That should nail your weighting - and show you how well you've already done in getting your weighting down pat. Sounds like you are already pretty close to nailed.

From there, take six pounds off of your belt and put them in the BC's trim pockets on either side of the tank to simulate a backplate's weighting... Then work on trim. The BC should never shift you uncontrollably into any position. You should be able to take a position in the water - usually but not always prone and horizontal - and stay there without having to fin or scull your hands.

For a really advanced trim exercise, try this: Assume a prone (horizontal) position midway in the water column and float there, like a skydiver. If your knees are straight, you should tilt up. If you bring your heels to your butt, you should tilt down. This is aided by heavy fins like Scubapro Jets or ankle weights if you have lightweight plastic fins.

Of course, sculling or finning can screw up the results, so don't do either when running those tests.

The "bend knees to tilt up or down" exercise is called a Center of Gravity Drill, or a CofG drill.

Dive Right In, what does your shop charge for a 7' primary hose? What about a whole hose package: 7' primary, 22" or 24" backup, 24" lp inflator, and 24" hp spg hose? Can you get us a good deal on brass and glass Thermo spgs?

Good tips, and I'm still working on it. When I was diving in Thailand, I had one 800gram piece in each trim pocket on my Zeagle Stiletto. But the bands were on the bottom tank band. I understand now that they make pockets that you can place on the top band. I know that to maintain a true horizontal position, I had to extend my arms, so moving the weight up should help...another reason I am looking at the DRIS BP/W package. With the STA that is included, you are right, I may not need any additional weight and I can work on my trim and body positioning techniques. Thanks...I always find your posts very informative!

 

[Deep South Divers]

Why does the wing not have slots for the cam bands? I defintitely want my rig to be as secure as possible and to me, that would mean that the cam bands go through the plate and through the wing and then around the tank.

This product looks like the tank cam bands are completely external to the the backplate and everything is held together by the two bolts that secure the STA to the BP. Is that correct? If so why?

Uh-oh... Here we go again. Were you present for the recent debate on STAs?

This design requires a STA - which it comes with for the price. Actually, it comes with a really great, all stainless steel, low-profile STA.

In the recent discussion, pro-STA divers cited advantages of better geometry (in particular with less interference with the head and first stage), a more solid feel to the whole rig when there's no tank on it (bolted together), and a faster, simpler switch to doubles. There's also the advantage of +1 more pound of stainless, or +6 or +7 more pounds if you use a weighted STA (depending on manufacturer). The largest manufacturers of backplate and wing combinations such as Dive Rite and Oxycheq sell STAs for their wings, and Halcyon and OMS are selling wings that REQUIRE STAs and will not allow for a STA-less design at all. Apparenlty this setup is similar to the latter.

The supporters of STA-less designs - which up until I heard Tobin and TS&M agree with this opinion, I thought were a dying breed - claim that STAs are unnecessary and confusing and a "nusiance" and that better geometry is actually accomplished without them than with them. Their point is that a tank can actually be carried lower on a backplate without a STA than with a STA, although a recent redesign in STAs was making that untrue. They claimed that carrying the tank lower on the backplate was an improvement with head/first stage interference and more effective than a STA's solution, which was to move the tank and first stage 1/2" away from the diver's head.

It was also argued by a prominent STA-less supporter that a diver should "get used to" the first stage interfering with his head, that a diver "learns to deal with it," and that his own neoprene hood had a permanent dent in it from first stage and/or manifold interference. He implied that this was normal and not a problem, citing it scarcasctically as an "internet problem" (meaning not a "real" problem) and implied that the issue was psychosematic because the only people that found issue with head and first stage interference were those who were first warned that this would be an issue by their instructors and "internet gurus." The individuals on this side of the debate then dodged direct questions but did not counter or comment on the weighting, solidity, universiality (all wings will work with a STA), or quick-change-to-doubles advantages cited by the supporters of STAs.

The subject was then dropped to avoid having an open discussion become an argument.

Whichever side you agree with regarding the debate, this particular wing, like a Halcyon (who, interestingly, was the pioneer of the STA-less wing), REQUIRES a STA unless you want to modify the wing yourself.

 

[Sik_Z33]

Nah, they're not bad. Check this out: Regulator hoses | Extreme Exposure

Extreme Exposure in High Springs is not known for being cheap, either... $48 for a 7' hose is probably even high. But even at $48, it's a comparably inexpensive upgrade... And since regs don't typically come with 7' hoses (or any of the other lengths for that matter), you can get the hoses now and take them off your old ones and put them on your new ones if/when you upgrade regs.

That's the cool thing about modular gear... You can buy piece by piece.

Bottom line: Don't let it stop you.

Thanks for the link, your right they're not that bad at all. So far the best priced hoses I can find are on divegearexpress.com. Their 7-foot standard rubber hose is going for $29.95, the 22" hose is $15.95. They also have braided flex hoses for about the same price, should I try the flex hoses or stick with the tried and true rubber ones?

 

[Sik_Z33]

Why does the wing not have slots for the cam bands? I defintitely want my rig to be as secure as possible and to me, that would mean that the cam bands go through the plate and through the wing and then around the tank.

This product looks like the tank cam bands are completely external to the the backplate and everything is held together by the two bolts that secure the STA to the BP. Is that correct? If so why?

When I got the wing those were my thoughts exactly even though its clearly shown in the pictures with no cam slots. I'm also all for being as secure as possible and I see what you mean but with the STA securely bolted to the BP this rig feels solid as a rock. I was also bummed because I can't use this wing with my transpac if I ever wanted to. But now I'm not sure how much diving the old transpac is going to get now that I've seen the light.

 

[Deep South Divers]

I've done a ton of business with divegearexpress, and they're fantastic. A lot more affordable than Extreme Exposure, too, and definitely just as top-of-the-game as EE.


...But I think you're about to get a deal from Dive Right In.

Two of the guys that work for me are using Miflex (braided) hoses, and they love them. They really like the flexibility of them, but I've heard of a couple of instances where the braiding has either begun to fray or become compromised. Since the braid is intregal to the hose's strength, it would be clear that this wouldn't be a good thing.

...So the few that actually use them love them, but I don't think they've really caught on in the world of backplates and wings and long hose primaries and such. I think that most of us still feel that the "normal" style rubber hose is less likely to have issues because there's no braid to snag and/or fray.

Since I have no personal experience with them (my guys use them but I do not), maybe I can get one of those guys to comment on their experience using them.