Right or Wrong?

[GDI]

Consider this hypothetical yet interesting situation. A diver goes on a diving trip, he is a certified cave diver. His brother is also a diver who holds a Wreck Diving Specialty card. They are down in Truk Lagoon and getting ready to make a dive unto a ship wreck. The cave diver holds no card for diving wrecks. On board the charter is a instructor having checked the manifest and c-cards and asks if the certified wreck divers would like to penetrate the wreck, There are three divers plus himself all wreck certified and all have the basic required equipment. The rest of the divers six total including the cave diver are instructed to make their dive with the DM only onto the outside of the wreck. They are instructed not to bring any lights. The cave diver requests to make the wreck dive with penetration. Again the instructor asks to see his wreck card. the cave diver does not have one. The instructor tells him to dive with the DM or not at all

Questions:

1. Was the instructor correct to deny the cave diver a wreck penetration dive based on his lack of wreck diving certification yet knowing he was a cave diver?

 

[Kim]

That sounds a little harsh to me. At least up to a certain level overheads are very similar. I did the IANTD Overhead Environment cert which is basically a Cavern equivalent with the same things qua light penetration, gas management, line use, being applied to wrecks (i.e. I can penetrate a wreck as far as a cavern)
Obviously there are some differences of hazard - mainly of an entanglement nature and sharp objects/corroded objects - but the rules are basically the same to the level I was trained for. I guess if you want to stick a cave diver into the Doria then probably the thing that would be of concern would be less the type of training than the type of experience. In your example you don't really state what kind of penetration is going to be done - a quick look inside a well known wreck? - a deco sortie into an unknown wreck? I guess that the answer to this question depends more on that than the pure cert difference. Certainly for a moderate penetration I can't really see what the problem is - at least the guy already has the correct gear with him!

 

[Charlie99]

His boat, his call.

 

[Azza]

Question:

Was the instructor correct to deny the cave diver a wreck penetration dive based on his lack of wreck diving certification yet knowing he was a cave diver?

At the end of the day the diver is a certified diver. If he makes the call to go were he is not certified then that is his call. I was taught in my DM training that a certified diver is responsible for themselves, all we can do as DM's/Instructors is offer the advice and strong recommendations.

However to stop a Cave certified diver entering a wreck is IMHO a little overboard. Cave divers generally have exceptional diving skills and are educated enough to know about the hazards involved in Wreck diving. Its just common sense. The instructor could have even taken the guy for a checkout dive to make sure of his skills before letting him participate, or checked his log book to gain inside knowledge of the guys experience. That is what i would have done. I mean who goes to Truk to dive the outside of wrecks? Sounds like his holiday was ruined by an over zealous Instructor.
And people ask me why i refuse to become an instructor...

 

[OneBrightGator]

Neither, the cave diver made the mistake of not discussing his diving plans and certifications with the instructor (DM, charter, capt, owner, whoever) before booking the trip.

 

[JustJoe]

What relationship does the instuctor have with the boat Captain? Is he just along for a ride like everyone else or is he "the man(or woman)" on the boat?

If he has no authority on the boat then he is overstepping his bounds. If he is in charge then he has complete authority.

I also believe that this is an oversimpification of a very complex situation.

Joe

 

[Charlie99]

I also believe that this is an oversimpification of a very complex situation.

Kind of like "there's always THREE sides to a story"

From what little is known, my suspicion is that the instructor had bad vibes or other concerns about the cave diver. My experience with random met-on-the-boat buddies is that certification level isn't all that good of an indicator as to whether or not someone will be a good buddy. Attitude and general behavior on the boat has been a better indicator.

Charlie

 

[OneBrightGator]

Even with cave-trained buddies?

 

[Charlie99]

Even with cave-trained buddies?

Yes.

But not as bad as guys that claim to be Seals and underwater demolition experts. :yl2jump:

 

[Kim]

I also wonder if this is a purely speculative question. I haven't been there yet, but I really have to wonder if the dive ops are so fussy in Truk. Is there a 'right' answer to the question? If there IS a real reason that a cave trained diver shouldn't presume to dive wrecks with that training I would love to know exactly what it is. I notice, for instance, that GUE has a Cave side and a Tech side - basically overheads and deco I thought. I didn't see anything from them for wreck only and I have never really heard about advanced 'wreck' certs either.