Safe diving or just an ***hole of an instructor?

[Big-t-2538]

GeekDiver once bubbled...

Why didn't you accend with your buddy when he reached the set PSI level. Being that you had planed on the 4 of you accending when the first person reached a certin PSI how come you and your buddy didn't accend with the first two buddies.

MY experience with diving as a group of 4 or more is a bit strange....we have let 2 go off together when someone reaches the thumb the dive point.

Of course, we also plan for this by saying at XXXpsi we head for the surface, we could be any combination of 2 or more....just so long as no one is left without a buddy.

For instance if 5 of us are diving and 3 want to go somewhere but the other 2 don't we split....but we also know the overall plan, max depth & max time...so if something should happen, we are aware of it quickly.

 

[sheck33]

Somebody shoot that 'instructor' please...

:sniper:

 

[GeekDiver]

Big T

I don't have a problem with seperate buddy groups heading off on there own or accending as long as thats whats understood or planned but that wasn't the case here. As I understood what was said was that at any point if anyone of the four reached a set psi point then all would accend together.

Because I was still a beginner and hadn't done any "deep dives" before, we (we = I with one guy as my buddy and another buddy pair) went to dive the wreck with an instructor. We had talked quite a bit before we jumped into the water (discussed the PADI theory we needed to know for the deep dive etc.) and had said to each other we would wait until EVERYONE of us was in the water before we were going down. Another thing we discussed was that we would ascend when anyone of us had 50 bar left.

The other problem that appears now is that watersprite wasn't clear about who his buddy was or where he was and shouldn't have contenued the dive. They got into the water together but somewere at somepoint his buddy was assigned to and dove with somebody else. They (the org 4 + the instructor) collectivly didn't dive the plan as they established it. When it didn't go as expected they all collectively tossed the dive plan out the window and changed it on the fly. This is where watersprite should have called the dive and taken responsibility for his own safety.

the instructor appointed a new buddy for my buddy. I believe they ascended with another buddy pair plus an instructor/dive master. I think the other buddy pair that we started the dive with (lol I didn’t see much of them at all…)

Watersprite knew things weren't going as planed but made a decision to dive anyways with out establishing and fully understanding a new dive plan. Although this was an AOW class students should have basic skills and shouldn't have to have someone hold there hand or make decisions for them that affect there safety. The Instructor should be there to insure safety and there's no excuse for what he did but the divers in the class should have so reasonable responsibility of there own actions.

When I took my AOW I had less experiance than watersprite but I wouldn't have started the dive given the same instance and wouldn't have accepted a volentary air share. I can say this because on my first deep Blue water dive my buddy had a 100cu tank where I had an 80. After the first dive he made the offer to share Air to extend my bottom time. My buddy knew going into the second dive that by pairing up with me he would have to surface with his remaining air and end his dive sooner. We discused this after the first dive together on the boat before the second dive and knew that I didn't feel comfortable with it. When I signaled to end the dive he offered his octo and I refused. When he didn't want to surface and refused to end the dive I accended without him. That being said I didn't view it as me abandoning my buddy but more of him abandoning me forceing me to make an accent with out him. We made a third dive together but I knew and took the responsibility that my accent would be without a buddy and I took that risk and the responsibility for my own actions.

Geek

 

[watersprite]

Geek,

No worries, I don’t take your post as a flame at all. I agree that it was dumb of me to stay with this instructor (I still take he was not a DM because I see on my certificate that he signed that he has teaching status PADI instructor for that current year). I am really glad I didn’t panic down there. I realised very well that he was the only one I could rely on in case I needed air… I know that it was stupid to stay with him and I assure you I will never keep diving with a fool like that!

I don’t think I put my buddy in a dangerous position. HE (plus the 2 other guys AND the instructor) was the one who left without me in the first place. I never saw him again until I descended to 17 metres. He was waiting there for me. Remember, he didn’t notice I wasn’t even there until he was at 17 (!!) metres. We were only buddies for the next few metres and saw perhaps only 5 metres of the wreck together.

My buddy didn’t ascend on his own. We were with the 5 of us. My instructor appointed new buddy pairs when my buddy was low on air. My buddy went up with the two others, plus another instructor (who was diving there as well, just as an extra instructor I guess). I was the only one who continued with the instructor because I hadn’t used as much air yet (I’m not a big girl either, so I guess I didn’t use as much air as those guys either).

I think it is alright to appoint new buddy pairs. This happened as well in another place I dived. When the others were low on air, they ascended and I kept diving with the dive master. The difference is that we did discuss this before we went diving though…

The lesson I learned from this is clear I guess… Talk about the dive and stick to your plans, as someone else said.

Watersprite

PS. Mike: I sent you a PM.

 

[GeekDiver]

Watersprite,

Glad to hear your response and that you took this as positive which is what I intended. I'm also glad to hear that you learned more that just the instructor was wrong to put you in that position. You also learned not to just blindly follow the leader and to take responsibility for your own safety. Going through the training is the easy part, applying what you have learned and understanding the skills is the real accomplishment and test of your diving ability.


Geek

 

[watersprite]

Geek bubbled:

Going through the training is the easy part, applying what you have learned and understanding the skills is the real accomplishment and test of your diving ability.

Thanks for your kind message. These are wise words indeed. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't have dived as deep with so little experience. I know what the risks are of diving and I can tell you that during the last mintutes of that dive all those worst case scenarios went through my head. I believe you just don't know what you'll do when you panic, especially when you're not experienced at all...

I did get the impression the divers of that dive company found it "normal" we shared air while ascending. When we ascended together, I remember a dive master/instructor said something like "oh hey, your bottle is empty?" He appeared to find it was alright... My initial post to this board was to ask if such a thing was "normal". I'm just glad my thoughts are being confirmed that this shouldn't be common practice.

At least now I know what I'll do next time.... LOL I'll give him that sign that Mike suggested :froggy: (couldn't find a smilie giving a finger) and will wave "bye bye" :wave:

Watersprite

 

[raviepoo]

If you do that then you are ascending without a buddy. You are out of luck if you have an accident between the bottom and the surface. People DO DIE in 5 ft of water.

watersprite once bubbled...
Geek bubbled:

At least now I know what I'll do next time.... LOL I'll give him that sign that Mike suggested :froggy: (couldn't find a smilie giving a finger) and will wave "bye bye" :wave:

Watersprite

 

[GeekDiver]

I'm sure that air sharing does occure often and is common but that doesn't make it safe. What's the old saying about if your friends jumped off the roof would you.

The live aboards that go out to the Flower Gardens are very strict about how much air you have remaining when you get back on board. If you run out wether on purpose or by accdent your diving is done for the trip. I'm sure they do it to help prevent this practice and to promote diver safety/responsibility.

A good note about all this is that you learned and are now a better diver for it. Thats the reason why I like this board. If it weren't for scubaboard we wouldn't have this vast exposure and would miss out on the benifits and experiance of so many divers. I know that I had I not found this board before starting diving I wouldn't be the diver I am now. Not that I'm a great diver or have lots of experiance but at least I'm a good decent diver.

The hardest lessons learned are the ones we have to figure out on our own but are often the ones we learn the most from.

Geek

 

[ElectricZombie]

Planning to share air in order to complete a dive is not very responsible. What was your Instructor thinking?

 

[PhotoTJ]

The first thing an insstructer should learn is to evaulate his/her students comfort level, and not push them past it.