Scary OW certification weekend

[LavaSurfer]

Does anybody else think this story doesn't quite ring true?

To begin with, a HP hose leak can't empty a tank the way the OP describes. HP hose leaks leak very little volume. If the OP had 500 psi when he saw the leak, and came up on someone else's gas, he wouldn't have had an empty tank at the surface. Look at Curt Bowen's numbers on leak rates: Life Ending Seconds • ADVANCED DIVER MAGAZINE • By Curt Bowen An HP orifice leak emptied about .9 cf/min; if the OP was an on Al80 with 500 psi, he had about 12.5 cf in his tank, and therefore had at least 13 or more minutes before the tank would have been empty from the leak.

And as bad as I think dive instruction can be, I simply cannot imagine an instructor being callous enough to ignore a student who a) panicked; b) did an uncontrolled ascent, and c) ended up on the surface coughing up pink foam. This sounds like a case of immersion pulmonary edema, causing dyspnea at depth, but it could conceivably be pulmonary barotrauma. I have seen instructors abort a dive and refuse to allow a student back in the water for a nosebleed. I have a difficult time imagining an instructor allowing a student who had to be placed on oxygen to reenter the water.

Something just doesn't smell right here.

There are way to many things here raising red flags.
First off...

We went down again to about 30ft and practiced the skill where the instructor turns off your air, and you swim like crazy to the surface, and manually inflate your BC. ​

Anyone ever heard of this skill? I guess I have failed as an instructor because I don't make my students do a Buoyant Emergency ascent. Oh Wait, nobody makes students do this.

I have had a line blow at the SPG, it takes a long time to drain a tank. not minutes but 10's of minutes.

I almost don't know where to start with this one...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The buoyant emergency ascent is optional for SEI and some of our instructors use it. However the air is never turned off and you don't kick like hell for the surface. You have them flare out and make sure the student is exhaling.

 

[Quero]

If he was doing the skills, then touring the hole - its entirely possible that the 500psi after the leak is true...

We were about 40ft down were after we demonstrated our 7 basic skills we took a tour around the hole. I was cruising around enjoying myself when i decided to check my depth and see how much air i had used. When i grab my guage to look at it all of a sudden air starts spewing where the hose attaches to the SPG.

​

​

Those hoses can start to leak where the hose meets the gauge if the o-ring is worn, but no, it's not a fast enough leak to empty a tank. However, an anxious diver thinking that a little leak like that is putting his life at risk can easily breathe down a tank in no time.

The tightness described around the chest and the inability to breathe, even while snorkeling, sounds like a panic attack. I can imagine a student diver breathing O2 during the surface interval if he's been hyperventilating from a panic attack. And I can imagine an especially anxious and prone-to-panic diver thinking the presence of sinus blood in the nasal mucus and in the saliva was more pronounced than it actually was, leading the student diver to overstate the case somewhat.

It's so very, very difficult to believe that an instructor would callously put a diver with a possible lung overexpansion injury back in the water rather than calling an ambulance that I tend to think the OP really didn't understand what happened and because of the degree of anxiety he suffers, remembers the events in a much more dramatic fashion than they actually were when they took place. I guess "fishy" works as a description in the sense of "fish story."

 

[JamesK]

Quero, you're a smart lady. I understand and agree with almost all of your post. Also if you read the OP's other post here on SB, you will see they had a slight panic attack during their Discover Scuba course as well. Eve if your statement is 100% accurate, why would an instructor certify someone who panicked so easily? This person should be put back in the pool for more work before they can be certified IMO.

 

[redacted]

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It's so very, very difficult to believe that an instructor would callously put a diver with a possible lung overexpansion injury back in the water rather than calling an ambulance that I tend to think the OP really didn't understand what happened and because of the degree of anxiety he suffers, remembers the events in a much more dramatic fashion than they actually were when they took place. I guess "fishy" works as a description in the sense of "fish story."

Yet I find it even harder to believe that a OW student would be making up stories of coughing up pink stuff. And I only see those two possibilities right now.

 

[tracydr]

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Those hoses can start to leak where the hose meets the gauge if the o-ring is worn, but no, it's not a fast enough leak to empty a tank. However, an anxious diver thinking that a little leak like that is putting his life at risk can easily breathe down a tank in no time.

The tightness described around the chest and the inability to breathe, even while snorkeling, sounds like a panic attack. I can imagine a student diver breathing O2 during the surface interval if he's been hyperventilating from a panic attack. And I can imagine an especially anxious and prone-to-panic diver thinking the presence of sinus blood in the nasal mucus and in the saliva was more pronounced than it actually was, leading the student diver to overstate the case somewhat.

It's so very, very difficult to believe that an instructor would callously put a diver with a possible lung overexpansion injury back in the water rather than calling an ambulance that I tend to think the OP really didn't understand what happened and because of the degree of anxiety he suffers, remembers the events in a much more dramatic fashion than they actually were when they took place. I guess "fishy" works as a description in the sense of "fish story."

While I agree with you, I do see professionals in sports fields, especially things like SCUBA, where it requires some "medical " knowledge, playing doctor out in the field. Even as a doctor, I would be seriously hesitant to put the OP back in the water. Even with a basically normal exam, including listening to his lungs with a stethoscope.
soemtimes, things like small Pulmonary Embolisms can be very, very tricky to diagnose and of course, there's always the possibility that this was a cardiac event.
i used to see coaches put athletes back in the game with head injuries and other bad things. Not smart.

 

[undrwater]

I once dived with a woman who had a condition similar to this (didn't happen while I was diving with her thankfully). She said she would cough up foamy pink sputum at the end of a dive in which she overexerted herself. She said her physician's advice was to quit, while a consult with DAN led her to believe it could be managed by diving in relaxing conditions. She has reportedly done some dives without the condition repeating itself, though on the dive with me, she said she didn't feel "right."

 

[Scott]

It's probably going to be a while before the OP gets back to us if he heeded our advice. He'll probably be in the hospital for a little while if what really happened is as serious as it sounded in the post. I'd love to hear more of this story. If what really happened is as serious as how we're all reading this, action must be taken.

Unless he was checking from his hospital bed. Last Activity Today 07:20 AM

 

[boulderjohn]

I am sorry to say that I recently spent 5 days in the hospital. During that time, I was able to check in from time using a tablet PC, but posting was well beyond my capability at the time.

 

[fnfalman]

I don't know which shop the OP went with (if at all because yes, the story is too adventurous to believe), but if it were the SSI shop in Albuquerque, then it would be SCUBA Center of New Mexico. I've gone out with a couple of the instructors there before and they were all highly competent.

I suppose anything can happen but turning off the air and make an OW student do emergency surface procedure? Come on!!!

I did that in my Advanced Rescue Diver class. Not OW.