Schools of thoughts

[alcina]

MOD POST:Moved from Intro & Greets

 

[deepstops]

Thank you for your reply. One of the things I came across had to do with finding like minded dive buddies.

I opened this can of worms also because it looks like I will be down in the Ginnie Springs area for the next couple of months for work and wanted to know what I may be getting myself into should I decide to look into Cave diving.

Thank you again.

As stated, GUE's Fundamentals of Better Diving will absolutely improve your diving. I took it in July 2002 and use those skills I learned in every dive I do.

 

[TSandM]

There are lots of good cave diving instructors in Florida. Most cave diving instructors will teach thorough and careful classes -- nobody wants his student to get hurt.

The commonalities in cave training are much greater than the differences, because they are largely imposed by the environment. Streamlined gear, non-silting propulsion, pinpoint buoyancy control, and the ability to solve problems underwater are simply requirements to cave dive safely. Agencies and instructors may differ in precise gear configurations and in certain procedures (especially line marking). The advantage of GUE training for caves (and in general) is that the curriculum is highly standardized, which means if you dive with anyone else who has taken a GUE cave class, you will find the same gear and the same procedures as you use.

GUE/DIR diving is largely controversial because of the poor behavior of some of its followers, most notably the internet behavior of George Irvine, former head of the WKPP. He has unfortunately not been alone in this. It is, thank goodness, not universal in the world of GUE-trained or DIR divers.

 

[RikRaeder]

As a diver less than 2 years experience, I have begun to educate myself on the various schools / trainings of diving. I am curious about GUE and why it seems to have such a "love 'em" or "hate 'em" following.

Can someone shed some light onto this topic?

Thanks

There are probably as many answers to that question as there are divers. I've got nothing against DIR folks (can't bring myself to say practioners) unless they turn into rude, arrogant loudmouths (only room for one of those, and that's ME). In my limited experience, the few I've interacted with have been evenly split at about 50/50.
From what I've read, there are a lot of pratical and well-thought out ideas to it, but the deal breaker for me was that it's a philosophy. I've all ready got one of those, so I decided it wasn't for me.

 

[String]

As a diver less than 2 years experience, I have begun to educate myself on the various schools / trainings of diving. I am curious about GUE and why it seems to have such a "love 'em" or "hate 'em" following.

Can someone shed some light onto this topic?

Thanks

A lot of it started years ago with the founder who was an exceptionally arrogant person. Basically it used to be "do it my way or you will die".

In the interests of PR they've removed him from the front line now and things have improved (although you do still find the occasional lunatic hell bent on spouting that but they are few and far between).

GUE you have to buy into EVERYTHING - completely standardised kit setup with no scope for personal customisation and so on. Standard gases, standard procedures and so on. Some people love them for that - you have a GUE buddy you know what you're getting.
Others dislike that (myself included) and are of the view there is more than 1 way to do something and what is great for 1 person may not be ideal for another.

So 2 different schools of thought that are ultimately incompatible hence love or hate.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'd like to add that in regards to cave diving, even outside of GUE, things are pretty standardized. I have been diving with lots of cave divers that were trained by different instructors of different agencies and we've had no issues with being able to execute dives safely with proper communication that is understood by all, even without briefing the communication pre-dive. I can't speak for OW rec or tech diving, but for cave diving, the differences are very minimal.

 

[Blackwood]

I can't speak for OW rec or tech diving...

well, if certaiN pERsonalitiEs Are a Source of data, I'd say there are at least a handful of different ways to approach open water dives.

 

[rongoodman]

You're not that far from Scuba Shack, in Rocky Hills, just south of Hartford. One of the owners is Ed Hayes, a GUE instructor who teaches GUE Fundies and a couple of great homebrewed buoyancy classes that will prep you for Fundies. Give them a call.

 

[ucfdiver]

well, if certaiN pERsonalitiEs Are a Source of data, I'd say there are at least a handful of different ways to approach open water dives.

All of which are seemingly wrong.

I'm not so sure I consider cave diving fairly standardized.

As for gear, non redundant bouyancy, stuffing the long hose, mounting backup lights on tanks, butt mounting primary canisters, single tank cave diving, bungeed wings, right handed light holding, no fin straps, etc are all things that don't go along with GUE's training, and it would only take a matter of hours at Ginnie this weekend to see most all of that.

Also, for cave training, it varies tremendously. I took basic and intro under 2 different instructors.

One instructor taught intro as a single day course, did not allow doubles, did not allow a drysuit, taught a "little river leap" where one kicks off of the walls like a frog to progress through the cave system, counted dives <15min towards training dives, only made 4 dives for the entire class, gave almost no prodive briefing before diving devils ear, no land drills were done, no valve drills were done at all, no lost line drill, no lost buddy drill, only one position on the air share etc.

The other instructor encouraged doubles and a drysuit if that's what you were comfortable in, taught cave conservation, every dive was >40 minutes, 7 dives were made during the course, went over every dive in great detail, all drills were done on land first, valve drills were done every dive, lost line drill was done, lost buddy drill was done, air shares were done giving and receiving.

Both of these instructors were NACD instructors. This difference, from a student's perspective, is simply unacceptable.

GUE's training program is standardized, and the general consensus is that they have better quality control. I can't vouch for it personally, but I'm certainly looking their direction for tech 1.

 

[nereas]

As a diver less than 2 years experience, I have begun to educate myself on the various schools / trainings of diving. I am curious about GUE and why it seems to have such a "love 'em" or "hate 'em" following.

Can someone shed some light onto this topic?

Thanks

I really want to answer this question.

However, NetDoc himself and his army of mods are just waiting for me to try it.