Scuba agencies

[eelnoraa]

Ah then, what constitutes "best"? Those who are convinced that best=most rigorous choose one agency. Those who feel that best=easy choose another. .....

I think Pete nailed it. OP must first define what is "better" ? While I do believe GUE is probably the agency that most consistently produces the good divers, (by good, I mean good in water skill, like buoyancy, procedure, situational awaress, ... ), but I really don't think Rec1 is the best class for everyone. It is in generally too high of entry barrier: the intial cost, the effort needed to pass the class...

It is probably the best class for those who is committed to the sport of diving. But the true is few can make this kind of commitment even test the water (by this I mean getting certified). Chances are the rigorous standard, the positive aspect of GUE can deter a "want to get certified diver". I personally know some one that took GUE training and got frustrated, and didn't like it

Myself is a GUE trained diver. I will wholeheardly recommend GUE to all certified divers who want to advance in diving, but not at the OW level. If I have to do it all over again, or if a close friend ask for my advice for getting certified, I will recommend him/her to do it with PADI. Reason is the class is inexpensive, it is relatively easy to get certified, so that he/she can at least get a taste of what diving is. At the same time, I will warm him/her that the training he/she get in OW is very primitive and don't get complacent.

After he/she gets a little experience, if still wants to pursued further, then the next class should be GUE fundamental. Going through fundie, pass or not, the students will most likely be better/safer divers than if they go through PADI AOW, Nitrox and drysuit combine (which costs more and get less in return). And after that, he/she can decide on his/her own on what path to continue.

IMO, every diver after OW should get the kind of training offer in GUE fundie. You don't have to do it through GUE if you can find the same type of training/instructor from another agency, just going through GUE will almost guarantee the result.

---------- Post added June 5th, 2015 at 11:21 PM ----------

I was told by a GUE instructor that they forgot to put a space in the term fundies. It was supposed to read 'Fun Dies'. If the target of your diving is fun, then GUE may not be the best agency for you.....

This I disagree. True that fundie is a class where you get worked, hammered for mistake, but at the same you are getting some of highest quality instructions. After all, isn't that why we pay for a class?? Then after the class, all your dives should just be more fun because you spent less time worry about your buoyancy, less time worry about where you buddy is (assuming he/she is also GUE trained), less likely to kick up the bottom to destroy viz. Instead you can focus on enjoying the dive. This doesn't necessary mean the divers have to dive in bp/w, jet fins or long hose, or any particular style. It is the basic skill that makes this happen.

It is also true that you can get all of these with good instructor regardless of agency. But to reach the same output, I don't think it will get any easier than fundie. I would much rather to pay for a class that I get worked on and learn than a class that I just walk through and with a card afterward, regardless of agency.

 

[kelemvor]

yes, GUE trumps all.

Well that's like, your opinion man.

There are those of us who whole heatedly disagree.


NAUI is a non profit agency. All the others (including GUE) exist for the purpose of separating you from your money. Dive training is just something they have to do in order to achieve that separation. On the other hand, NAUI exists for the purpose of training divers.

 

[johnkendall]

Well that's like, your opinion man.

There are those of us who whole heatedly disagree.


NAUI is a non profit agency. All the others (including GUE) exist for the purpose of separating you from your money. Dive training is just something they have to do in order to achieve that separation. On the other hand, NAUI exists for the purpose of training divers.

And that's where you are wrong. GUE is a 501(c)(3) non-profit.

 

[RJP]

NAUI is a non profit agency. All the others (including GUE) exist for the purpose of separating you from your money.

A difference without a distinction... unless all the NAUI shops and instructors out there are also non-profit organizations that provide dive training and gear at no charge.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I was told by a GUE instructor that they forgot to put a space in the term fundies. It was supposed to read 'Fun Dies'. If the target of your diving is fun, then GUE may not be the best agency for you. I've heard of more people leaving in tears from those classes than any other. In fact, it might not be represented by any of the targets from an earlier post. DIR, GUE and UTD were born out of expedition diving and they retain that discipline and mindset throughout their program. They're an extreme version of diving and while they may deserve some superlatives, 'best' is not one I would use. I dive to have fun.

I took Fundies in part because my diving was not as fun as I thought it could be. Remember, there is a Rec Pass level. I enjoyed the course, though it was every bit as challenging as people say. I believe it has made my rec diving more fun. But of course I was already OW certified (PADI). I suspect the GUE OW course, Rec 1, could be less "fun" for a student who just wants to start diving as soon as possible with a minimum of hassle.

 

[The Chairman]

There are those of us who whole heatedly disagree.

2 phunni! This is one of the best misspellings I've seen in a while!

 

[Trace Malinowski]

It's always interesting to read how things have changed regarding the time involved in training. When I initially became certified as an open water diver at PDIC HQ in 1981 the class consisted of 1.5 hours in the classroom, 1.5 hours in the pool, and lasted 8 weeks before moving to open water which continued the education including 1 class/pool & 1 open water session of snorkeling/skin diving, basic scuba skills x 2 dives, navigation dives, rescue, and a scuba tour for fun for a total of 10 days and over 40 hours of instruction. Everything you see in a US Navy diver training video we did including drown-proofing and harassment (with the exception of having our hands and regs tied up). Every day was a challenge. We got yelled at - a lot! Buddy breathing, no-mask buddy breathing, lots of swimming, and lots of water swallowing and if you touched the bottom or sides of the pool (even if choking) or lost your buddy there would be Charon to pay. I had the freaking time of my life! It was FUN! Now, today some agencies claim such training is not fun. Such claims have poisoned the well and led to a reverse mission creep where for many divers the GUE-F class is the first time they experience a challenge and enjoy it.

Students think that a frog kick, mod frog kick, mod flutter, helicopter turns, and a backward kick are all hard to learn. You know what is really hard to learn? A flutter kick - the kick like Barbie kind. After 34 years of diving, I still need to train this kick. Why? So much can go wrong with it. In fact, in his book, Manual of Freediving: Underwater on a Single Breath Umberto Pelizzari devotes 35 pages to correcting errors of the flutter kick. But, today any kick that looks like a flutter kick is acceptable.

Most scuba instructors in the early days were also swim coaches, WSI's, and lifeguards with a background of training as swimmers if they were not also coaching. In class we learned the flutter kick, frog kick, and dolphin kick as well as no hand turns. If you sculled with your hand(s) at all out of habit you couldn't go to open water.

When I became a dive supervisor (divemaster), my training lasted a year. I usually worked with instructors and students at 2 colleges during the Fall & Spring semesters and the HQ's private students 1 night a week and then open water, advanced and specialty classes during the dive season which probably ran between 200 - 300 hours of experience with students. My instructor class also lasted a year and I had to teach the entire program by lecturing to class sizes of 1 - 20+ and doing groups of up to 6 students in the pool and 2 - 4 in open water. That was another 200+ hours of experience to become an open water instructor.

Today, when a diver thinks of an open water instructor the thought is, "Big deal." Meanwhile, in the DIR community, GUE instructors are given reverence, the same way we used to admire our open water instructors who could always out-perform and out-swim our cocky @$$e$. My instructor was a WWII paratrooper with the 101st Abn and the other IT that I admired most was a paratrooper and LRRP with the 173rd Abn Brigade in Vietnam and then later the 82nd Abn. Both were instructors in the army and I think this also influenced their teaching style - high demands, yet more professional, quiet, encouraging, and patient with students than almost anyone I ever met teaching at a resort. In the water, you were getting your @$$ kicked. Out of the water, you were being encouraged to give 110%. We were educated rather than indoctrinated or marketed to ... I don't think the agency was ever promoted in a single class other than the fact that the logo was stamped on some materials. Our US Navy NDL & deco tables to 190 feet were produced by Dacor. Our books were Jeppesen. Our BC's were horse collars. We earned our gear piece by piece. Swimming well got us our fins, mask and snorkels and we started with one regulator. Buddy breathing & no mask buddy breathing well while swimming and not touching the bottom got you the "octopus".

I think what elements of the industry have sacrificed by making training fast, cheap and easy is the respect divers used to have for one another. I dove with PADI and NAUI guys and we never cared what agency. A C-card was a C-card.

When I took GUE training ... the word "suck" came up a lot.

What I learned from that is when I have open water divers, or instructors, or ITs and CDs in PSAI's ABC class, I explain that you can take a US Naval aviator like a Neil Armstrong who can land a shot up jet on a carrier at night, make him a Top Gun instructor, a Blue Angels pilot, even an astronaut, but once you put him in a helicopter and he touches the cyclic there is going to be a learning curve and some frustration. So, don't think you aren't a good diver or an experienced diver. You are simply a fixed-wing pilot now learning to fly a helicopter and you'll find out that being able to dive like a helicopter flies will make learning these skills something that will challenge you, probably make diving safer, and hopefully much for fun!

 

[kr2y5]

the way most of us suspect the OP really intended it: "Might one agency be better than another for my wife who wants to get an OW certification so she can dive with me?"

As Lorenzoid pointed out, it is probably safe to assume that OP's wife is doing it for OP's sake, and probably hasn't had a chance yet to become truly passionate about it, so she could be very easily discouraged. I can definitely relate to that, because my wife has also gotten into diving for my sake. It helps to be able to do a half-day "discover scuba" program first that you can walk into on a whim, without feeling much of a commitment. It helps to be doing the OW course in a nice tropical resort in 80F water, and nobody wants to waste their precious vacation in Hawaii or some such place sitting in a classroom and listening to slow-paced lectures on diving physics. Which agencies have a discover scuba program and allow all the academics to be done online ahead of the time? I'd think that narrows it down quite a bit. My wife did her OW with PADI, and I think that was a good choice.

 

[tbone1004]

Trace, change your instructor to a Navy Frogman and EOD instructor and you've got my experience down to a T..... I hated it for the first couple of months, now I love my instructor like a father, but good lord did I hate him in the beginning

The advantage of that type of training? Everything goes from "Oh God I'm gonna die!!" when something goes wrong, to "well that was exciting"

 

[ScubaDocER]

Spoken like a true future Instructor TS and M