Scubapro DIN conversion kits: 200 vs 300

[Storker]

But who ever wants to go diving, say, in Norway ???

Yes, who ever would want to dive places like e.g. Saltstraumen, Narvik or Gulen? Besides, if you'd read the replies you'd noticed that I said North Europe, and posters from continental North Europe also have seen a few 300 bar tanks.

I've dived the Mediterranean a few times and, frankly, it has been outright dull and disappointing compared to some of the diving I have access to only a short drive from home.

In places where it is worth diving (not oil platforms in the North Sea),

AFAIK sports diving from North Sea oil platforms is prohibited. Besides, the logistics suck big time since you generally need a helicopter to get out there and back in one day.

Is there any chance that rented cylinders are only fitted with a DIN-only 300 bar valve, despite being filled at 232 bars?

*sigh*. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you aren't intentionally obtuse, just a bit slower than I believed you to be. So I'll write this very slowly so you'll have a chance to read and understand this time.

A tank rated for 200 or 232 bar will not be fitted with a 300 bar valve, because that's a major safety risk.

A tank rated for 300 bar will not be fitted with a 200/232 bar valve, because that's a major safety risk.

There's no point in filling a 300 bar tank to just 232 bar, unless you happen to be at a place where the compressor can't deliver 300 bar.

There's no point in buying 300 bar tanks if you only have access to 232 bar.

I'll leave it up to you to figure out what the obvious conclusion, and the reply to your question, is.

 

[Zef]

I have 2 AL Calypso regs in my collection that are both 200 bar DIN 1st stages.

-Z

 

[Zef]

Here is a primer on what is available In Western Europe (excluding UK):

High pressure (300 bar) and low pressure (232 bar) cylinders typically have M25x2 neck threading.

The valves that can screw in will either be rated for high or low pressure.

Low pressure valves come in 3 flavors low pressure convertable for DIN, high pressure DIN, and low pressure non-convertible for yoke type 1st stages.

The low pressure DIN valves have 5 threads in the valve opening and can accept a 5 thread insert to convert them for use with yoke type 1st stages. Without the insert a low pressure DIN valve can accept either low pressure DIN 1st stage or a high pressure DIN 1st stage.

The high pressure DIN valves have 7 threads in the valve opening. This prevents a low pressure DIN 1st stage from sealing properly which prevents damage/injury. There is not a 7 thread insert available to convert thes valves thus preventing one from mounting a low pressure yoke 1st stage on them.

1st stages, for simplicity, come in 3 flavors:
Yoke
Low pressure DIN
High pressure DIN

A yoke 1st stage can only be mounted on a low pressure valve...either a non-convertivle valve or a low presssure DIN valve with a 5 thread insert screwed in.

A low pressure DIN 1st stage can only be mounted on a low pressure DIN valve without the 5 thread insert in place. The low pressure DIN 1st stage has only 5 threads to prevent it from sealing on a high pressure DIN valve.

A high pressure DIN 1st stage can be mounted on a high pressure DIN valve or a low pressure DIN valve. The high pressure DIN 1st stage has 7 threads on the fitting to mate with the 7 threads of the high pressure DIN valve. It can also be mounted on a low pressure DIN valve....only 5 threads will enagage leaving 2 exposed, this does not pressent a problem as the 5 threads that are engaged are sufficient to secure it in place on the valve.

The non-convertible low pressure valves are increasingly rare in Western Europe and one will most likely only find them in a club's or rental investor . There is also a DIN standard for cylinders/valves/regs that use high concentrations of O2...available but not very common.

Tank threading in the UK and the US differs and there may be neck threading differences in the US between high and low pressure tanks and valves.

-Z

 

[Belzelbub]

Yes, who ever would want to dive places like e.g. Saltstraumen, Narvik or Gulen? Besides, if you'd read the replies you'd noticed that I said North Europe, and posters from continental North Europe also have seen a few 300 bar tanks.

I've dived the Mediterranean a few times and, frankly, it has been outright dull and disappointing compared to some of the diving I have access to only a short drive from home.


AFAIK sports diving from North Sea oil platforms is prohibited. Besides, the logistics suck big time since you generally need a helicopter to get out there and back in one day.


*sigh*. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you aren't intentionally obtuse, just a bit slower than I believed you to be. So I'll write this very slowly so you'll have a chance to read and understand this time.

A tank rated for 200 or 232 bar will not be fitted with a 300 bar valve, because that's a major safety risk.

Technically, that is correct. However, a 3000 PSI (~200 bar) valve with dedicated 300 DIN intake does exist. It’s not rated to 300 bar, but the the threads match those of a 300 bar version.

https://www.americandivingsupply.co...r-3000-Psi-Aluminum-Cylinders-p/va300-30a.htm

OP, there are 2 reasons to go with a 200/232 bar fitting on his regulator.
1. You already have it, and doesn’t see many 300 bar tanks in his area.
2. Older MK15s had an issue at higher pressures, for this reason they were rated for 200 bar. I believe this can be fixed, but not positive.

For number 1, 300 BAR DIN fittings would work just fine either the tank combo valves. Seal is at the o-ring, and the same number of threads engage, so the connection is just as strong despite the exposed threads. As has been said, a 300 bar fitting would be more useful as you could use it on any tank (barring the additional thread sizes for non air gas mixes in the EU) DIN or yoke with a spin on yoke adapter.

For number 2, if my understanding is correct, then this might be a compelling reason for the 200/232 fitting. But apart from the MK15, I,m not aware of any other regulators that are limited to 3000 psi.

 

[Zef]

Technically, that is correct. However, a 3000 PSI (~200 bar) valve with dedicated 300 DIN intake does exist. It’s not rated to 300 bar, but the the threads match those of a 300 bar version.

https://www.americandivingsupply.co...r-3000-Psi-Aluminum-Cylinders-p/va300-30a.htm

OP, there are 2 reasons to go with a 200/232 bar fitting on his regulator.
1. You already have it, and doesn’t see many 300 bar tanks in his area.
2. Older MK15s had an issue at higher pressures, for this reason they were rated for 200 bar. I believe this can be fixed, but not positive.

For number 1, 300 BAR DIN fittings would work just fine either the tank combo valves. Seal is at the o-ring, and the same number of threads engage, so the connection is just as strong despite the exposed threads. As has been said, a 300 bar fitting would be more useful as you could use it on any tank (barring the additional thread sizes for non air gas mixes in the EU) DIN or yoke with a spin on yoke adapter.

For number 2, if my understanding is correct, then this might be a compelling reason for the 200/232 fitting. But apart from the MK15, I,m not aware of any other regulators that are limited to 3000 psi.

AquaLung Calypso 1st stages come in DIN, at least in the EU, and are only rated to 232 bar/3000 psi....they also only have 5 threads on the fitting.

For versatility I would recommend the OP purchase/install the 300 bar DIN conversion on his reg....that way if he can modify it as he suggested he can use it with a high pressure tank or continue to use it with a low pressure tank.

-Z

 

[JackD342]

I have 2 AL Calypso regs in my collection that are both 200 bar DIN 1st stages.

-Z

Yeah, that configuration is standard catalog, but not sold in the US. I am not sure why that one is 232 instead of 300. Meeting the needs of the market? Limitations of the 1st stage? Random "we always did it this way" decision?

Out of curiosity, is there a max pressure rating stamped somewhere on the body? The US yoke version has "USA 3300 PSI" and "232 BAR MAX." stamped on the yoke, but nothing on the body.

 

[Zef]

Yeah, that configuration is standard catalog, but not sold in the US. I am not sure why that one is 232 instead of 300. Meeting the needs of the market? Limitations of the 1st stage? Random "we always did it this way" decision?

Out of curiosity, is there a max pressure rating stamped somewhere on the body? The US yoke version has "USA 3300 PSI" and "232 BAR MAX." stamped on the yoke, but nothing on the body.

I dont recall if it is marked or not. I will check when I am back at jome on the 29th. This past year they changed the rating so that the Calypso is cold water certified...but I cant tell the difference between the current calypso and the one I purchased for my wife a few years ago that makes it cold water certified...i think it may just be they had evaluated for it as i believe the internals are the same.

I wouldnt mind knowing if there is something inherent inside that makes it safe only to 232 bar vs 300 bar...if there isnt i would lile to see if a 300 bar din kit from a different reg could be fitted.

-Z

 

[JackD342]

Technically, that is correct. However, a 3000 PSI (~200 bar) valve with dedicated 300 DIN intake does exist. It’s not rated to 300 bar, but the the threads match those of a 300 bar version.

https://www.americandivingsupply.co...r-3000-Psi-Aluminum-Cylinders-p/va300-30a.htm

Not really. That 3000 psi rating is not for the valve itself, but rather for the "as sold" configuration. It has a burst disk for 3000 psi service installed, and that is what the sticker reflects. Change the burst disk, change the sticker, and you have a configuration with a different rating. XS Scuba/Thermo sells all those valves with a burst disc pre-installed, configured for 2400, 3000, 3300, or 3442 psi. If you need any other service pressure, you need to buy the additional burst disk and label and change it out.

 

[Angelo Farina]

*sigh*. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you aren't intentionally obtuse, just a bit slower than I believed you to be. So I'll write this very slowly so you'll have a chance to read and understand this time.

A tank rated for 200 or 232 bar will not be fitted with a 300 bar valve, because that's a major safety risk.

A tank rated for 300 bar will not be fitted with a 200/232 bar valve, because that's a major safety risk.

There's no point in filling a 300 bar tank to just 232 bar, unless you happen to be at a place where the compressor can't deliver 300 bar.

There's no point in buying 300 bar tanks if you only have access to 232 bar.

I'll leave it up to you to figure out what the obvious conclusion, and the reply to your question, is.

Thanks, this is finally clear and solves my doubts...
Of course I am not anymore smart as when I was young, age and nitrogen micro-bubbles cause this result...

 

[JackD342]

I dont recall if it is marked or not. I will check when I am back at jome on the 29th. This past year they changed the rating so that the Calypso is cold water certified...but I cant tell the difference between the current calypso and the one I purchased for my wife a few years ago that makes it cold water certified...i think it may just be they had evaluated for it as i believe the internals are the same.

I wouldnt mind knowing if there is something inherent inside that makes it safe only to 232 bar vs 300 bar...if there isnt i would lile to see if a 300 bar din kit from a different reg could be fitted.

-Z

To the best of my knowledge, the Calypso Classic (yoke) has passed the cold water EN250 testing going back several years or longer. In the US, only the QC (quick connect) version was available for a few years, and that model is NOT suitable for cold water. Less metal and more plastic on the 2nd stage connections/fittings...

I think I noticed the cold water verbiage (in small print) in the dealer catalog after they dropped the QC, but I suspect it was also true before that for the Classic. I just never thought to save older catalogs to look up stuff like this. I don't know what need the QC was meant to fill, and I am glad it is gone. One odd note though - it looks like it is designed to be able to reverse it from right handed to left handed like most Apeks. I just haven't seen that in print, and haven't had any reason to try it. If not, then it looks like they started down that path but then gave up.

But they have made slight changes inside the 2004 style 1st stage, so perhaps one of those did contribute to the cold water certification. From what I can tell, in 2010 the removable crown was discontinued and the crown is now machined into the body. In 2017 the yoke retainer was changed to add a pre-filter. Yoke dust cap changed at that time too.

On a side note, I don't know if it one available for the 232 DIN fitting, but an ACD conversion kit is available for the Calypso yoke. I know that makes your day.