Sexism?

[Storker]

I cant recall the last time any one said anything about my gender and the last LOB i did had a majority of single lady divers.

Personally, I can't remember seeing one single issue with sexism where I dive. But then, I'm a man, and we men are generally quite clueless when it comes to those things. I know that I am (I like to believe that gender isn't an issue for me, but I have to admit I might be more prone to offer help to females, since they generally have less upper body strength than men have. Also, I'm old enough to have been taught old-fashioned 'chivalry' like opening doors for women and that kind of stuff, so I might very well be guilty of gaffes in that department...).

 

[uncfnp]

Jill,

I for one admit to being unclear on the exact definition of sexism. It might be helpful to define sexism and how it relates or differs from gender discrimination.

Does it include, as some have suggested, politeness if shown to the opposite gender only?

 

[Wingy]

Stalker that is not a gaffe, as an australian I see that as mateship not a sexism issue, id be grateful for that door to be opened when im checking into a hotel lugging my dive bags and backpack after a few flights in a day. Isnt that what people do? I do it for people of both genders and as im getting older..im really quite cool with any help. And if you are climbing into or out of a boat in Manado (and anyone who has done that will know exactly what I mean) I am going to be reaching my hand out to steady you too......isnt that what we do?. By the simple fact we are engaging in diving we have a commonality.

I met some awesome women older than me on my last liveaboard who came from many countries - European, Asian and American..and me, the lone Aussie. I didnt see any of them letting gender get in the way of their solo travels to more remote parts of the world on the women or mens side. Yes, you could argue that SEA LOB diving often involves guides and boatmen who gear up for you but you know what..at 68 if you are still travelling the world from polar regions to Savannah and the coral triangle..you have earned that if you choose to do that. No one needed help gearing up or getting back in boats due to either gender or age. I hope im still rockin round the world in another 20 years adventuring.

I will be honest, ive met that guy who wants to put your gear together and does it wrong then gets all poopy when you point it out. If im putting my gear together (and if im diving in Asia or SP I do check it as im gearing up) I like to do it myself. If I do it wrong, please feel free to point it out, whether you are male or female, id like to know if I've got my fins on the feet thanks!

If what I have observed is indicative of gender issues in diving then I don't see we have any issue. Unless you want to make it an issue.

 

[wedivebc]

I will admit I am sexist when it comes to diving. I am much more comfortable diving with women than men. Way less testosterone, and ego issues. I like to treat diving as a pastime and not a competitive sport and have found more like-minded women in that regard.

 

[Akimbo]

I always offer to help divers with heavy gear and steady them on rolling decks, regardless of gender. Granted, I typically assistance females first in the rare case of seeing a simultaneous need. Part is a result of a natural tendency to protect females, part is a culture of respecting women, and a significant part is being trained as a military and commercial diving tender. There’s nothing condescending about it. This crap is heavy, there’s lots of it, and wet decks are slippery.

I have never sensed resentment from divers of either gender. I haven't given it much thought until now, but perhaps it is because women see me offering the same level of assistance to males? Of course, it may also be because they were too polite to tell me to go suck bilge water.

 

[industrious95]

On the dive boats in NJ, there are lots of women divers. I'm sure sometimes there must be some instances of sexism, but for the most part I've seen very capable women divers "holding their own," and male divers treating them with respect and as equals. I do notice a little less trash talk when there are ladies on-board.

I've seen women ask for and give help to other divers just as much as most of the men divers, of course each according to their own level of ability and skill. If I'm walking empty-handed from the parking lot to the boat and I see another diver unloading their car, I will grab some of their gear, regardless if they're a woman or man.

About the only way that I'm aware I treat women differently is getting changed on the boats. None of the boats I dive on have changing rooms, so I will attempt to put on my dry suit underwear out of their view. I'm not shy and I don't care if they see "my stuff," and believe me, it's nothing worth looking at anyway, but I wouldn't want to embarrass them. I don't consider that sexist, I just consider it respectful.

Interestingly enough, I'd say half of the "mates" on the local boats I dive on are women. And they're a lot more qualified than me.

 

[drrich2]

People who don't share the same basic value system on a topic will not get on the same page despite extended discussion. Some of the posts on the forum got me thinking...is 'sexism' any communication or other behavior that is tailored to a specific gender? Or is it only unwanted behaviors? (Like what constitutes sexual harassment in the work place; what if the target likes it?). Or is it behavior thought to be disrespectful/degrading judged by a 3rd party standard, whether the target likes it or not?

Some feminists seem to want a culture that is 'gender blind.' Sort of like when I was a kid & people seemed to think the answer to black/white relations was to be 'color blind' - for whites to see blacks as 'Oreos' - black on the outside only, but white on the inside (borrowing a term from the old t.v. series The Jeffersons).

Some women like, and even expect, to be treated 'special' to some extent. 'Like a lady,' that sort of thing.

So, to start with, on the whole, do women divers want to be treated just like men? If all male divers made a deliberate effort to treat all women divers as though they were men, albeit maybe a little shorter on average, would that make everybody happy?

If the answer is no, what do you do with that?

Richard.

 

[Damselfish]

A lot of curbing 'sexism' has to do with how we women relate and react to it. I think women have a responsibility of taking care of their own gear! Unfortunately they are moving themselves into a "helpless" position by not taking that responsibility seriously and keep on depending on the "guy" to take care of technical issues or whatever. As much as I dislike this phrase "Be your own man", there is a lot to it.

I agree with this. Maybe I've been lucky, but I can't remember ever having an issue diving, and very few elsewhere in life. (For the record, I'm an engineer.) This may have much to do with my attitude. Not to say there's not DBs out there, or that it's anyone else's fault if they're a DB.

BTW, I don't think helping someone that actually needs it, or holding a door for someone, is sexism. It's being helpful or polite, though of course how it's done matters. I've held doors for plenty of guys. I do think some people tend to take offense at things too easily where no offense was intended. Some folks seem to go through life looking for stuff to be offended about, and if you're looking for something you're more likely to find it.

 

[Storker]

Stalker

You know, I REALLY hope that spelling was an autocorrupt, uh "autocorrect" fail, not a Freudian slip

that is not a gaffe, as an australian I see that as mateship not a sexism issue

Me, too. However, it might be complicated:

People who don't share the same basic value system on a topic will not get on the same page despite extended discussion. Some of the posts on the forum got me thinking...is 'sexism' any communication or other behavior that is tailored to a specific gender? Or is it only unwanted behaviors?

I do think some people tend to take offense at things too easily where no offense was intended.

I like to think that I'm not gender-biased. I like to believe that I'm an equal-opportunity a$$hole. However, what's not intended as sexist may very well be unintentionally sexist. And what's not sexist may very very well be perceived as sexist, depending on the recipient's personal experiences. Thus, what some of us see as mateship or somewhat old-fashioned courtesy may be perceived as sexism. It's a freakin' mine field. Fortunately, thin-skinned people are pretty rare in my diving circles Even the gals have brass balls

 

[Diver0001]

A major diving publication has asked me to write an article on sexism in diving. I'm curious how that makes people feel? Do we still have an issue with sexism in our industry? Are you sick of hearing women complain about unequal treatment? Are you tired of men saying there is no problem? Are there some reasonable suggestions to help women feel validated and men feel informed?
If there are any men or women that want to share any private anecdotes, please email me at JillHeinerth@mac.com.
Thanks!
Jill

Interesting choice to put this post in the women's perspective forum. I guess that tells us what kind of an article it will be.

I can't think of anything off hand that I believe would distinguish diving in particular in terms of sexism. Women will obviously be subject to various degrees of sexism but it will not specifically be tied to diving as much as just tied to the cultural context. I don't think you'll find any significant deviations to that pattern either way among divers but I also am not aware of any anthropological studies about it.... so your opinion will go largely unchallenged, I guess. Makes for an easy article when nobody can fact-check it.

R..