Should I get a Second stage alt or air2

[flots am]

Hi, I'm about to purchase my first set of scuba gear and was wondering if I should get 2 second stage or one of the air2? The air2 seems more convenience since I don't have an extra tube. However, the guy at the shop recommend me getting 2 second state because a dedicated air source is safer. Is this the case? And is there any major different between air2 vs air3? Thanks

This has all been covered, but here's my 2 cents anyway.

The Air-2 doesn't breathe as well as a good reg. However it's for you, not the OOA diver, and at recreational depths, you'll only need to breathe it for maybe 4 or 5 minutes maximum, ever, since it's only used for a direct ascent to the surface.

The Air-2 is always accessible since it's also your BC inflator. You can't lose it. It's probably already in your hand. It will work. This is a huge difference for divers who leave their alternate second stage trailing off like a streamer in the wind or laying in the mud or sand.

Other side of the coin:

A really good alternate second stage will make you and the OOA diver very happy in an emergency, if you can find it and keep it serviced and clean and easily accessible.

All things considered, if you have the discipline to care for it and mount it properly and practice with it, I'd recommend an alternate second stage that's at least as good as your primary second stage.

If it's just going to hang there and be ignored until you need it, or you're going to buy something cheap marketed as an "octo", I'd go with the Air-2 instead.

Also, I use the term "Air-2" as a generic term. I actually like Atomic Aquatic's SS-1 better, and it can be unscrewed from the BC hose and kept with your other regs to avoid damage.

flots.

---------- Post added May 8th, 2014 at 02:01 PM ----------

If I'm out of air, I'm going for the reg that I SEE is working!

AFAIK, new divers are taught to donate the primary second stage (the one that's working).

This means that from the OOA diver's perspective, nothing changes regardless of the donor's configuration.

---------- Post added May 8th, 2014 at 02:03 PM ----------

The big difference between the AirSource 3 and the Air3/SS1 is that you can deflate through the AirSource 3. With the other two, you have to take it out of your mouth to deflate.

All three deflate without removing from your mouth. There's an exhaust valve on the bottom.

That's why oral inflation requires a significant push on the "big button" (no other way to describe it anymore since the color and shape keeps changing).

 

[Colliam7]

I've read this a couple of times and still find it confusing. The statement, "one distinct advantage of the 'primary donate' is that you are donating a regulator that you know is working at the time you donate it." begs the question, are you thinking that your alternate air source may not be working? And if that is so, what are you going to do for air?

A good comment, which brings out an issue in phraseology. And, I agree, I think it is possibly a bit confusing, or at least it creates a mis-impression. So, no, I am not thinking my alternate may not be working. I check the function of both second stages before every dive. I periodically check the function of the alternate during each dive. But, the alternate second stage venturi control may possibly in pre-dive position, or the user adjustable breathing control knob may be turned so that the second stage doesn't flow quite as easily. It will still deliver air, just not quite as easily on an immediate basis - until the venturi lever is switched, or the UAB knob is opened a bit. That is not a big deal for the donor, but for an already stressed / panicked out of air diver it may be just enough to push them over the edge into an uncontrolled bolt to the surface. Even looking at a worst case scenario - the alternate second stage isn't working at all, for some reason something has happened during the dive that prevents it from delivering air - in such a case, who is more likely to be less panicked, and therefore better able to sort through the problem - the OOA diver who has already had to swim up to a buddy and grab a second stage, or the diver who has just donated their primary second stage and is not panicked at the moment? Clearly the latter. Would you rather donate a second stage that you 'think' is working - it was fine during the pre-dive safety check - only to have it turn out not be be and have the OOA diver bolt? To me, and probably to the other advocates of the 'primary donate', it is simply common sense. I donate what is in my mouth - I know it is working, I just took a breath from it. I don't have to shift the venturi control, I don't have to turn the UAB knob before the stressed OOA diver has good flow. Then I can switch to my alternate and do those things - I am not the diver who is stressed or panicked.

I met an instructor a few weeks ago who told me he teaches his students, if they are out of air, they should grab their buddy's primary air source. I was a bit horrified. He said that in his experience, that's what happens anyway in an OOA situation, so he might as well teach his students that. I hope not to dive with his students. I think grabbing your buddy's primary is a really bad move.

NO. It is actually a really good move. It is also a very likely move. It also makes more sense that stressfully searching for the buddy's alternate somewhere in the 'triangle'. Now, I could easily make the argument that performing a good pre-dive safety check allows each diver to know where their buddy's alternate will be found. But, what if it becomes detached from the clip / mouthpiece / whatever holding it in place during the dive (an unfortunately common occurrence, it would appear, based on what I see underwater), and the diver doesn't notice? What if the nearest diver is not the buddy, but another diver with a different configuration? The only constant is that each diver has a working primary second stage in their mouth. Good for that instructor, by the way. I don't want a stressed / possibly panicked OOA diver to have to search for my alternate second stage. Take what is in my mouth and let me sort things out.

If your primary is on a long hose, and your secondary on a short one, and you can calmly deal with your buddy's OOA situation, I can see giving him your primary after you take a breath, and then immediately switch to your secondary and if it is not working, buddy breath to the surface. But I am much more comfortable keeping my primary in my mouth, and offering my secondary, and making sure all my equipment is in good working order before each dive.

The hose length has nothing to do with it, and that was really my original point. Long hose, short hose, it really doesn't matter. As I noted, I can take a regulator with 'standard' hose lengths, breath from the longer (40") hose alternate as my primary, and donate that in an OOA situation, then go to the shorter hose second stage, kept on a bungee necklace. Irrespective of hose length, the donating diver should be better able to 'calmly deal with your buddy's OOA situation', even if his / her primary has just been yanked out of their mouth by a panicked, OOA diver.

Personally, I find the notion of having an alternate somewhere in the 'triangle' to be a bit nonsensical - I tell my students that this might as well be the Bermuda Triangle. I don't want an out of air diver having to hunt for a secondary somewhere in that triangle. Nor, do I want to have to hunt for it to donate it. I would prefer to give them what is in my mouth and immediately go to my alternate, which is right below my chin - get the OOA diver breathing, and the situation under control, then sort things out.

I agree, making sure that all equipment is in good working order before a dive, should be a given, at least for any competent diver. So, I think that the description of donating a regulator that 'you know is working', is probably misleading, even confusing. It is not a matter of working or not working, as much as not needing to switch the venturi control or adjust the UAB knob.

 

[Rossia pacifica]

My wife and I use air 2s and love them. They breath just fine, even at a hundred feet. If yours doesn't it probably needs tuned. I regularly switch between it and my primary while diving.
It wasn't until I took a rescue class that I noticed the value of a primary donate system. We had to do air share drills. My wife and I would just pop the air2 in our mouth and offer the primary. Easy peasy. We were amazed and a little horrified watching others fumble around in the "triangle" looking for an octo. Later in the class one of the "panicked"divers was taking regs from the students mouths. It was easy and almost automatic to just reach over and put my backup in my mouth.
I must say that we did find doing a horizontal swim while sharing air on a standard length primary hose to be difficult. Before the end of the class we had 7ft hoses and some instruction on how use them. Now swimming while sharing air is easy and fun.
As a new diver I think the primary donate system is more intuitive and easier to learn. I can honestly say if I had standard octo I would rarely practice with it, whereas an Air2 I will be adding air to my bc and think hey why not stick this in my mouth and give it a try. Same with the long hose; it's fun to swim along looking at critters while sharing air. If we had to stop and be huddled up we probably wouldn't practice much.
Also if we get into more technical stuff later I think it will be easier to adjust to using a bungee backup and long hose as the air share process won't be that different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cb5150]

Our instructors taught us the same procedures in an OOA. Grab the primary if the buddy did not give the secondary. We're new to scuba, so it got us a little nervous knowing that. Now that we really think about it, we decided maybe we can get the air2 later on once we have more experience. Does seems like asking for death with it at this stage lol.
Thank you for all your help.

This is why I dive with a "Solo/Self-Reliant" diver's mentality...even when I'm diving with other people.

For me it's a long primary, secondary bungee'd around neck, pony bottle at my side.

 

[Bigd2722]

I've read this a couple of times and still find it confusing. The statement, "one distinct advantage of the 'primary donate' is that you are donating a regulator that you know is working at the time you donate it." begs the question, are you thinking that your alternate air source may not be working? And if that is so, what are you going to do for air?

I met an instructor a few weeks ago who told me he teaches his students, if they are out of air, they should grab their buddy's primary air source. I was a bit horrified. He said that in his experience, that's what happens anyway in an OOA situation, so he might as well teach his students that. I hope not to dive with his students. I think grabbing your buddy's primary is a really bad move.

If your primary is on a long hose, and your secondary on a short one, and you can calmly deal with your buddy's OOA situation, I can see giving him your primary after you take a breath, and then immediately switch to your secondary and if it is not working, buddy breath to the surface. But I am much more comfortable keeping my primary in my mouth, and offering my secondary, and making sure all my equipment is in good working order before each dive.

Best,
-Tim

If you try the primary donate system, you will find that it is a much more comfortable and sensible method

 

[flots am]

I must say that we did find doing a horizontal swim while sharing air on a standard length primary hose to be difficult.

That's because it's not designed for that. An Air-2 is designed for a face to face, vertical ascent to the surface, while you hold on to the OOA diver's BC.

The only time it's in use is when someone managed to run out of air. There's no reason to be moving in any direction except "up".

 

[fnfalman]

All three deflate without removing from your mouth. There's an exhaust valve on the bottom.

I'll try again this weekend, but when I did it before, the vented air wants to go into my mouth.

 

[flots am]

I'll try again this weekend, but when I did it before, the vented air wants to go into my mouth.

AFAIK, you're right, but it should work the same for any of them.

 

[rhwestfall]

I'll try again this weekend, but when I did it before, the vented air wants to go into my mouth.

block it with your tongue, similar to a FF..... the "plus" is you have a side exhaust....

One of the things that always seems to be omitted in these discussions is that (specifically) the SP Air2 was part of a system. That system includes a BCD that has an additional dump on the opposite shoulder..... they continue to incorporate this feature in their equipment, with or without the Air2... it also was not attached at the top/back of the BCD, rather the front/mid breast location.

Rigged on another manufacturer's product, things begin to "conflict"..... i think when other manufacturers decided to adopt this product in their strategy, they didn't necessarily think it through...

When I used one on a non-SP BCD, it functioned best when utilizing a PTD valve (which many dislike too), and adjustments needed to be made to the corrugated hose length as well as the hose.

 

[LowDrag]

As you can see from my dive count I am a new diver as well. I was trained with the ScubaPro Air2 and talked into buying that reg with my vest style BC. I trained with it and did my OW dives with it. 15-20Just a few dives later and I have switched to a BP&W with a 7' primary hose and a bungee'd second. The reason I switched was because I did not like the feeling of having the OOA diver in my face during training (plus I found that I really like the BP&W). I also did not like having to keep my head positioned to the left because my Air2 hose was too short. I talked to my LDS owner about getting a longer hose for it but he was indifferent and said it was fine the way it was. I personally like my long hose/bungee configuration, it just makes sense to me and is easy for me to operate. Does that mean it will work best for you? NOPE!!! It just means that is what I like. There have been quite a few folks in this thread on both sides of the fence. Are any of them wrong? NOPE!!! They are all right in the thought that what works for them is what works for them. Being a new diver myself and having tried both configurations, my suggestion would be to connect with someone who dives a 7'/bungee system and rent a BC with an Air2 type system and go do a dive or two. Do some air sharing drills and see which rig YOU like the best. I love my rig and would not trade back to an Air2 for anything but that is just me. I like being able to grab my safe second knowing it is just under my chin so that I can easily donate my primary. I just hope that if I ever am in an OOA situation that I see the diver coming at me so I can be ready before they get to me.

Good luck in figuring out what you like. It adds to the fun of diving for me.