Should OW certified divers be taken into a deep wreck? Overhead? Thread split

[EFX]

Most people are surprised to learn that PADI does not say in any of its materials that divers are not supposed to enter ANY over head environment. Individual instructors may well say that, and I am sure many do, but PADI does not.

Hi John. I have to take exception to this. From the 2010 PADI Open Water Diver Manual on page 139 there is an entire page devoted to Overhead Environments. In particular I quote "For this reason, until you have the training and equipment you need do not enter a cavern, cave, wreck, or any other overhead environment. Doing so places you in an unnecessary and extremely hazardous situation." [italics are PADI's].

PADI goes on to say that anytime you cannot directly ascend to the surface you are in an overhead environment. Therefore the Mexican cavern and the wreck qualify as overhead environments. Swim-throughs share the overhead but with one important difference: a diver can ascend immediately and while swimming forward exit the overhead. The arches in Cozumel qualify as excellent swim-throughs. The Devil's Throat on the other hand does not qualify, as it is a fairly small (a restriction - two divers cannot enter side-by-side) coral tunnel about 50 ft long. The cavern and the wreck require a significant (to an untrained rec diver) lateral swim before ascending.

Please forgive me if this point was mentioned later in this thread. I didn't read the thread all the way through.

 

[boulderjohn]

Please forgive me if this point was mentioned later in this thread. I didn't read the thread all the way through.

It probably would have taken you less time to read the rest of the thread and realize this post was not necessary than it took you to write it.

 

[billt4sf]

You know, I think part of the differences in the opinions on topics like this lies in the vast spectrum of experience represented by the posters.

I remember going to Hawaii when I had about 14 dives. We booked a "boat diving" specialty, figuring it would be a good way to get another specialty under our belts, since we were going out on a boat anyway. Because of this, we had our own guide, and he was an instructor. He took me to 130 feet to see the shark condos, and I followed him, because at that point, all but one or two of my lifetime dives had been obediently following an instructor and doing as I was told. I would not do that dive today, but I didn't know enough not to do it then, and I do shake my head NOW at the instructor who thought that was a good idea. As a 14-dive diver, I would have been angry if someone had told me the instructor did something unwise or unsafe -- angry at HIM, because at that point in my career, I thought professionals were there to "take care" of me. After all, they took me underwater when I knew nothing!

In the middle ground, once I learned a bit more, I would be upset with the diver who blamed the guide, because we should all be responsible for our own diving. Although some things are learned with time, certainly we WERE told as open water students not to go into overhead environments, although certainly very little time was spent on that. So the diver should know not to do that, even if a pro is telling him it's okay. It's still hard to relinquish the sense that the DM, instructor or guide is operating to some extent in a "guardian" capacity.

Nowadays, with professional training and experience of my own, I blame both. The diver should know not to exceed his limits, and the professional should know better than to encourage him to do it -- especially knowing how novices are likely to cede decision-making responsibility to their leaders.

Very well put!

I am also willing to blame the dive industry (as much as an abstract entity can be "blamed"). I have never heard a DM on a dive boat say "Now before you jump in, has everyone done their buddy checks?" I have never had anyone selling a dive experience honestly tell me what skills I might need on a dive before taking my money.

Diving has become much more fun for us once we figured out what our limits are (by trial and error, no help from anyone in the industry -- except those on SB).

- Bill & Emily

 

[Storker]

I have never heard a DM on a dive boat say "Now before you jump in, has everyone done their buddy checks?"

This is of course a strictly individual thing, but a dive op doing stuff like that would lose my business pretty quickly.

I'm buying a dive, I'm not renting a nanny. Take me to the site, give me a good briefing, give me a hand when I ask for it, don't rush me when I'm gearing up and bring me safely back. Don't hand-hold me or otherwise treat me as incompetent. I resent that.


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