Should OW certified divers be taken into a deep wreck? Overhead? Thread split

[boulderjohn]

John, maybe not a "rule," but are you sure it was never something like an official guideline or recommendation? Never anything official from PADI? If so, then VERY interesting. I don't recall many specifics from OW class, but one thing I remember taking away was that "overhead environments" were strictly a no-go for us.

The only thing anyone could find in that highly contentious previous thread was a specific mention that caves are not allowed.

It is inconceivable that this is not part of the standard OW class.

I agree that this information should be more readily available, but it took a whole lot of persuasive writing to get the Understanding Overhead Environments class approved. The clear fear is that the class will be perceived as training for overhead environments, and it is not. The approval process included a requirement that students will be informed clearly and specifically that its intent is to make them more aware of the different levels of challenges in different levels of overheads and not train them for them. No open water training is allowed in the course, although it is permissible to do pool training in non-silting kicks. The last chapter tells them where they can get appropriate training for more advanced overhead environments.

 

[Bob DBF]

Quote Originally Posted by boulderjohn View Post
That is the reason that the PADI approved curriculum for Understanding Overhead Environments was created. . . .

It is inconceivable that this is not part of the standard OW class.

When I took OW in 1980 there was a lot of lectures and discussions because of the amount time we spent in class. This and similar subjects were discussed under what I like to call the "Don't Get In Over Your Head" lectures. Since the class I took was NAUI/PADI using the PADI manual, I have no idea whether the lectures were from either course or the instructor added this himself because he wanted to produce a thinking diver that had a good chance of making a correct decision when presented with a new situation. Considering the training was in NorCal it probably was an instructor getting his students ready for an unforgiving coast.

I would dare say that if you got the right instructor you might get taught this in OW now, however I don't think you would find many students interested as it would involve more time and probably cost more. I doubt that any agency has rules against adding content but the instructors are running a business, and makings longer and harder does not go over as well as it used to.



Bob
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[bowlofpetunias]

I remember my instructor advising about using good judgement about not exceeding our skill level. Nothing really stands out about "No caves" or "No Overheads". Perhaps it was because we don't tend to have caves and dives involving overheads around here Perhaps he just figured we were mature enough to decide for ourselves. He did stress that at the end of the course we needed to be prepared to take absolute personal responsibility for investigating and planning our own dives. No absolutes except for that one.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

When I took my instructor training from PADI in around 1985, I distinctly remember our instructor telling us we were to never allow our students to go under anything. Told us it was a violation of standards. I don't know if the manuals said the same thing, but I assume if they said otherwise, I would have given him a rash of crap.

Anyway, on my first OW class, once of my students darted immediately into a cavern after I warned them strongly "don't even think about it". I remember grabbing his little yellow fins and hauling him out ass first, I was so pissed.

I'm surprised that OW students can now go in overheads during certification dives.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I got certified by a PADI instructor, not by PADI, in 2004. It was made clear throughout the course that it was an open water diver certification that meant that at all times you had direct vertical access to the surface. At no time was there to be a physical or theoretical (mandatory decompression obligation ) obstruction that prevented that.

Overheads were strictly forbidden. I don't remember if it was in the manual. Have to go back and look. I also remember the instructor talking about swim thru's. That they were a feature you might encounter on a dive. That some may be ok. Most are not. This is how I was trained.

SEI strictly forbids overheads for ow divers in training. It is in the classroom lectures and course materials to stay out of them as an OW diver.
Why this is not standard across agencies is crazy.

I did not realize that, from what I'm hearing in this thread, that it's not part of every ow course to direct divers to stay out of them without proper training. That it needs to be a specialty to tell them how to identify and choose whether or not to go in is disgusting. But then if you only get minimal face time with an instructor, common sense must be one of those things, like rescue skills, that gets left out.

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI does strictly forbid any overhead environment during training dives. We are not talking about training dives here.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
Anyway, on my first OW class, once of my students darted immediately into a cavern after I warned them strongly "don't even think about it". I remember grabbing his little yellow fins and hauling him out ass first, I was so pissed.
. . .

In a class I took at Blue Grotto (FL), where we were to work on skills on the platform, the instructor told us the first day, "If you drift into the cavern zone, you automatically fail." That stern warning not only reinforced the understanding that we students were not qualified to enter a cavern zone but it was also a good incentive to work on controlling my position in the water.

 

[AdivingBel]

PADI does strictly forbid any overhead environment during training dives. We are not talking about training dives here.

Does that include AOW training dives as well?

 

[boulderjohn]

Does that include AOW training dives as well?

It does.

 

[AdivingBel]

I applaud PADI's effort to put forward information and deal with it in a realistic fashion. Is there enough info to pass along for an "Understanding Overhead Environments" curriculum? I think I see the need from PADI's pov that it be info the individual requests. With the way things are (and I don't necessarily mean just litigious CYA), I can see why it would be a hard topic for a general OW class. You could have such a wide and varied student base with great extremes in comfort level in the water, and I can see with newly minted divers that it's not a topic really up for discussion. The reality is that within the first couple dozen OW dives, odds are it's going to come up. There is an entire dive industry built around it, for good or bad. It's fine if the new diver has an experienced mentor to discuss it with, but that's not always the case. Expecting someone to sign up for another class with all that entails might limit the reach of information. What about a "swim through" adventure dive choice for AOW? Surely that would allow enough time to cover the salient points as well as open up a "reality based" Q&A for the instructor and student.