Should OW certified divers be taken into a deep wreck? Overhead? Thread split

[Akimbo]

Maybe I missed it, but what is the definition of an overhead environment? Can you swim under the anchor chain? How about a 6" diameter boom on a wreck? How about a 36" diameter boom? How about 20' through a wreck? How about dropping into a cargo hold that is open to the surface?

How about under the dive boat? How big a boat? Ever been under an aircraft carrier… nothing but steel plate in every direction for a long way.

How soft an overhead is OK? Thin ice, kelp, fishing net?

Somewhat facetious? Sure. There comes a point where divers actually have to use their judgment. All you can do is give them enough information to evaluate a situation and let Darwin do the rest. My perception is too many instructors settle for citing rules rather than providing information so students can think for themselves... let alone challenge them to think.

 

[boulderjohn]

My question would be, is Understanding Overhead Environments just a long definition of overheads, or is it a guide on what to take into account while making your own personal decision, or oes it teach that some overheads are OK to dive as an OW/AOW diver?

Maybe I missed it, but what is the definition of an overhead environment? Can you swim under the anchor chain? How about a 6" diameter boom on a wreck? How about a 36" diameter boom? How about 20' through a wreck? How about dropping into a cargo hold that is open to the surface?

How about under the dive boat? How big a boat? Ever been under an aircraft carrier… nothing but steel plate in every direction for a long way.

How soft an overhead is OK? Thin ice, kelp, fishing net?

Somewhat facetious? Sure. There comes a point where divers actually have to use their judgment. All you can do is give them enough information to evaluate a situation and let Darwin do the rest. My perception is too many instructors settle for citing rules rather than providing information so students can think for themselves... let alone challenge them to think.

The course goes into why swimming under the anchor chain is pretty darn safe. It goes into why going into caves without proper training and equipment is not safe. It goes into a heck of a lot in between. The purpose is to help divers exercise good judgment as they evaluate the potential danger of an overhead and their own training, experience, and equipment.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Common doesn't make it right. What the industry thinks of the practice means diddly. The jury may think common practice is just total horse caca and that a professional should conduct themselves as one at all times. Seems I heard something like that in my DM training.
If the DM does not know why he/she should not be leading divers into overheads or why it's prohibited in training, perhaps they should not have a DM card as their training was clearly lacking? Knowing the standards is part of DM training. Or at least it was when I did my PADI DM course.

 

[Akimbo]

The course goes into why swimming under the anchor chain is pretty darn safe. It goes into why going into caves without proper training and equipment is not safe. It goes into a heck of a lot in between. The purpose is to help divers exercise good judgment as they evaluate the potential danger of an overhead and their own training, experience, and equipment.

You have to buy a separate course that almost nobody has heard of for that or are you talking about the OW course?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The course no one has ever heard of it seems. I just covered this stuff last night in the OW class I have going now.

 

[Hawkwood]

The course no one has ever heard of it seems. I just covered this stuff last night in the OW class I have going now.

So, you are aware of all the courses out there?

 

[JohnN]

So, you are aware of all the courses out there?

It seems PADI is also confused. The following bit is from their website describing their TecRec programs:

What is technical diving?

Technical scuba diving is defined as diving other than conventional commercial or research diving that takes divers beyond recreational scuba diving limits. It is further defined as and includes one or more of the following:

• diving beyond 40 metres/130 feet deep
• required stage decompression
• diving in an overhead environment beyond 40 linear metres/130 linear feet of the surface
• accelerated decompression and or the use of variable gas mixtures during the dive

By simple logic then, a dive into the hold of a shallow ship wreck (lets say at 20 meters) is OK unless you go more than another 20 meters in.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

So, you are aware of all the courses out there?

Not all. But in these days of Zombie Diver, Cement Pond Diver, and Manatee Wrangler, nothing surprises me. The lengths some will go to in order to make money off things that should be in the OW class does though.

 

[AdivingBel]

I just covered this stuff last night in the OW class I have going now.

Jim, I don't want to steal info from your class, but in a nutshell, what did you tell your OW class on the topic of swim-throughs? Thanks.

---------- Post added March 6th, 2015 at 05:25 PM ----------

It seems PADI is also confused. The following bit is from their website describing their TecRec programs:


By simple logic then, a dive into the hold of a shallow ship wreck (lets say at 20 meters) is OK unless you go more than another 20 meters in.

Doesn't PADI have a wreck specialty for those dives?

 

[Wookie]

Not all. But in these days of Zombie Diver, Cement Pond Diver, and Manatee Wrangler, nothing surprises me. The lengths some will go to in order to make money off things that should be in the OW class does though.

HEY!! First thing we teach in the Manatee Wrangler course is to turn the GoPro OFF!!! That isn't covered in OW.