Sidescan sonar

[Bubble Boy]

Hey I wish I was wrong but unfortunately I am not. How do you think all the commercial operations are using sidescan sonar? Parks Canada is not issuing those guys permits. Park's may offer expert advise to the provinces when called in, but they dont go arround declaring wrecks historical sites....thats up to the province. Your profile indicates Ontario and your provincial guy is Peter Englebert (not sure of spelling). He knows his stuff. You might wish to contact Save Ontario Shipwrecks (SOS) for more information. SOS offers NAS courses all the time.

 

[Master Chief]

I suggest you call SOS and you'l find out the information is correct, why do you think there is an SOS "Save Ontario Shipwrecks". SOS needs goverment approval befor they declare and or put mouring lines on wrecks. SOS has with in its foundation and on its board of members Marine archeologist and Historians, this is how they are allowed to exist and do what they do, it is those individuals who obtain the permits for SOS. I am a commercial diver, and if a firm is looking for a specific wreck of histroical value any were is Canadian waters, for mere profit from its treasures, you can bet you'l need a goverment approved permit. I've been there budy and I know what I'm talking about, your just babbling off at the mouth about something you know nothing about, stop listening to other divers who blab the same. If what you say was the fact I would have already raped the Hamilton and scourge and pist on hostorical value for my own greedy profits.

Master Chief

 

[sparky30]

OK.. I see the point of the permits. Obviously its preferable that a new wreck is properly catalogued and historically preserved (I'm all in favour of that). I don't see why you would need a permit to tow a side scan sonar. I don't need one for my fish finder/Depth finder. If I have to get a permit great.. I still don't know where to go and ask. And yes.. I do have historians and archeologists on the team? What bothers me, is that there are lots of wrecks of known wrecks and the finders are not release the coordinates. The justification is that the wrecks have not been mapped. Why does everybody jump to the conclusion that the diving public will rape and pillage a new wreck? None of the people I go diving with would even think of removing artifacts. Quite the opposite, I know a few poeple who would enjoy the chance top map and explore a new wreck. Other just want to take a look.
So what's with all the secrecy regarding the whereabouts of wrecks. They are part of our cultural hertiage and as such should be accessible to all divers, not just the chosen ones under the guise of research belonging to some organisation. To make a long story short, if they won't give up the coordinates I'll have to find the damn things myself. Its challanging, fun, informative, and I might learn something in the process. Besides, we'll have another wreck to dive on. The same approach worked in Kingston, and look at what a great selection of well preserved dive sites they have.

 

[Butch103]

sparky30 once bubbled...
. The justification is that the wrecks have not been mapped. Why does everybody jump to the conclusion that the diving public will rape and pillage a new wreck? None of the people I go diving with would even think of removing artifacts. Quite the opposite, I know a few poeple who would enjoy the chance top map and explore a new wreck.

I have already been chastized on this board from some moron (who no longer posts)..for suggesting that he was an idiot for removing artifacts from the wrecks.....He made some rather crude remarks to me in a PM.

I agree with you wondering what is the harm in scanning for somehting down there, however I understand the feds concerns also.........................

Power to the the people though................. :boom:

 

[canuckdiver]

I tend to agree with the standpoint that artifacts should stay "in situ" unless they are being removed to be preserved and put on PUBLIC display.

That being said, I also feel that the secrecy surrounding the co-ordinates of the lesser known wrecks in lake ontario is for no other purpose than to protect the incomes of the charter boat operators that will take divers to those wrecks!

I am not sure what the rules and regulations are on using side-scan in lake ontario, I have been in email contact with both sharky's in st catherines, and the MOE, and have not recieved a definitive answer as yet.

I am planning on doing some surveying on lake ontario from my boat this coming summer, using "forward-looking" sonar rather than side scan, interphase technologies makes it as a navigation aid. And I will be looking for hazards to navigation rather than shipwrecks per-se.

If I were to stumble across a shipwreck, I would immediately contact a larger organization such as SOS or POW to get thier assisatnce in protecting the site.

As such, I cannot see a legal basis for the government regulating the use of a navigational aid (in the same class as radar) But I am actively doing research into it, and will post all results as I get them.

Feel fre to pm me if you have any info or CONSTRUCTIVE discussion. Sparky especially, please contact me, as we may be able to share resources.

 

[Bubble Boy]

Babbling is exactly what you our doing...There is a big difference in operating sidescan and stripping wrecks. Oh ya, by the way the Hamilton and the Scourge are protected wrecks.

SOS and POW are great groups. With regards to historical sites and archeological permits.... I have "been there" too buddy!

 

[Master Chief]

Hi

Well! may be were not understanding each other here, If you want to just run a sonar on a lake or on coast waters with the intent of just seeing whats there than permits are not required. Looking delibretly for a none wreck of historical value you do need a permit, But as you know in this country wrecks of historical value are protected.

Master Chief

 

[sparky30]

Well.. So let me get this straight..
If I drive around the lake with a sidescan sonar not looking for anything in particular (just for the fun of it basically) its OK.
If I think I know where a wreck is and go to that area I need a permit.. Hmmmm.. I guess I'll just cruise around the Port Dalhousie area.. Who knows what I might find.. I like that even better .. No permit required... and I don't have to spend hours in a library researching possible sites.
The best of both worlds... BTW.. Shark Marine has a really nice sidescan that is made in Canada (in BC I think).
Woohoo.. I can't wait.. That should be fun..

 

[canuckdiver]

ok, from all the information I have been able to gather so far, including speaking to a local guy that has been charged with infractions, the problem is not with operating a side-scan. What seems to classify as illegal, is searching for "articles of historic signifigance" without a permit. According to parties on both sides of the local case, there was no problems until a shipwreck was found, and then dove on WITHOUT reporting the find to authorities.

FWIW

 

[sparky30]

That's good news... I was planing on reporting anything I find. That's the whole point. I certainly wouldn't want to keep it to myself. On the other hand, our government is very secretive about who I am supposed to report my findings to. I looked all over the web hoping to find some information on the federal and provincial government sites, but so far I've struck out. Maybe I'll just send a letter to Santa