Skills

[RickyF]

It's been a long time since I was certified, but we were never taught anything other than the flutter kick in the OW or AOW course. Buoyancy was basically the fin pivot and picking a spot on the side of the pool and using your breathing to maintain your depth with one foot. Nothing in open water. Good Buoyancy control and proper kicking techniques were picked up by watching videos and when I took my advanced nitrox course. As with anything else, if you don't dive enough to keep in practice you will never perfect the techniques. You can't do it if you only dive one or two weeks a year on vacation. A pool refresher course is OK, but not the same as diving in the ocean. Thank goodness I now live in Oahu and dive just about every weekend!

 

[DepthCharge]

You just keep your knees bent and do these little floppy, toe kicks... I NEVER use a frog kick and have spent a lot of time underwater, although i do not dive that often where silting is an issue.

That's not a flutter kick. I'm talking about a staright flutter kick, straight knees from the hip. That's what is being taught.
Later,
John

---------- Post added January 22nd, 2014 at 07:16 PM ----------

PLEASE read what I posted. I said flutter kick. I never said modified, at least I can't remember typing that, nor can I find it when I reread my posts. Just to clarify......I never stated anything about modified flutter kick, just a standard flutter kick. Please do not make assumptions, or put words in that are not there.
Later,
John

 

[scjoe]

Well from a swimming standpoint, the kicks being described as frog kicks aren't actual frog kicks and the standard scuba flutter kick isn't a true flutter kick.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This is what I was taught in Open Water class ... from Jeppeson's "Open Water Sport Diver", fifth edition ...

"The frog kick is not commonly used in diving, but is good for providing a restful variation in kicks on long surface swims."

Jeppeson's promoted using the flutter kick and scissors kick as your primary propulsions techniques. I can't recall doing a scissors kick since OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

Unfortunately for the most part they aren't. They are being taught to dive in the minimum time possible because of the pressures in the marketplace. I took a 4 week, two night a week course when I was certified 12 years ago (4x 3 hour pool, 4x 3 hour classroom). Now it's usually compressed into three or four days - there's simply no time for someone to build meaningful skills in that period of time.

I like the way people assume that what they see in their personal experience is universal.

"When I learned 12 years ago we did it this way, but today they do it another way." Well, what you are actually saying "the individual class I took 12 years ago was this way, and I hear there are individual classes today that are different."

I was certified well over 12 years ago, and the whole class took 2.5 days. Pretty much nothing has changed in the standards for scuba diving in any agency in the last 12 years. The amount of time a course takes depends upon a local shop or instructor's schedule. Some of them cheat by cutting standards, which is what happened with me. There were 4 week courses 12 years ago, and there are 4 week courses today. There were 3 day courses 12 years ago, and there are 3 day courses today. The individual class you took in the past is not the way it was done everywhere on Earth.

 

[Bob DBF]

This is what I was taught in Open Water class ... from Jeppeson's "Open Water Sport Diver", fifth edition ...

"The frog kick is not commonly used in diving, but is good for providing a restful variation in kicks on long surface swims."

Jeppeson's promoted using the flutter kick and scissors kick as your primary propulsions techniques. I can't recall doing a scissors kick since OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I switch off to a scissor kick when I do a lot of traveling, even toss in a bit of dolphin kick and anything else that works. I don't know if changing between various different kicks helps, but I've never had a cramp on the water.



Bob
-----------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[DepthCharge]

This is what I was taught in Open Water class ... from Jeppeson's "Open Water Sport Diver", fifth edition ...

"The frog kick is not commonly used in diving, but is good for providing a restful variation in kicks on long surface swims."

Jeppeson's promoted using the flutter kick and scissors kick as your primary propulsions techniques. I can't recall doing a scissors kick since OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Maybe it's location or something. Most of the divers I know use a frog kick the majority of the time. Also probably environment...... wreaks and caves(tho not as much as I would like) I just find it much easier and never leave a silt trail. YMMV
Later,
John

 

[R-balljunkie]

This is an interesting subject. a lot of us divers tend to work in diving into our holidays. this involves booking an outing and more often than not, ending up with strangers on a boat (i've never been on a boat with 16!!! Whoa, overwhelming). like most technical hobbies, i find diving has its share of "smugness" with a touch of arrogance when it comes to being judgmental. i love the standard "how many dives do you have" question....its such a leading question. im guilty of all of the pre-mentioned....yes ill ask you the same question to feel out who i am diving with, HOWEVER I dont find it, nor make it my responsibility to "babysit" another diver while im on a paid excursion. I usually dive with a reputable outfit who will have several staff in the water while on the dive. IMO it's their responsibility to pick up the slack for the less experienced.

I do my best to either stay ahead, or lag behind to steer clear of the crowd...whether they're kicking up a sand storm or dragging gear, meh....I cant be the eco-police for the region, just passing thru and site seeing, however if we catch you dragging gear or intentionally damaging the reef here in my back yard....we'll let you know ASAP.

to be fair to most of the once annual divers usually rent gear, to include BCD's. This probably adds to the less than streamlined experience for them. i pack my own gear so trimming out is a breeze for me.

 

[swimmer_spe]

I just returned from a trip to St. Lucia. This was the first time in a lot of years that I dove with a resort operation. Usually I perfer to dive with independent operations as they meet my needs better.
That said there was probably 10-16 divers/day on the boat. many were certified in the last 2 years, almost all within the last 5 years. I have to say the skills were deplorable. I spoke with several of the divers, asking just general questions about there training.

My questions are to the cerification agencies. Why are they still teaching the flutter kick? Most of the divers that I observed were probably hitting the reef 50% of the time, the rest of the time they were stirring up the bottom. Do they teach streamling? Everyone to a person had either gauges dragging or the octo or both.

I did educate my "insta-buddy", demonstatred how the frog kick was much less damaging, and how everthing should be tucked in. She said that her instructor never went over these things.

Before anyone says "well she had a bad instructor" I repeat, all of the divers I observered dove in the same manner, and had different instructors. Seemes to me, it's what the standards are is what the issue is.

So why aren't the agencies being brought up to the 20th century?

Later,
John

Well, as someone who has been certified for less than 5 years, I can say this: Flutter kick is easy.

I swim, and when I get lazy, I switch to front crawl, and that has... the flutter kick.

Sometimes while diving, I do not do either kicks, I do dolphin. I do it because I can.

It has everything to do with practice, not instruction.

 

[Tony387]

I believe instruction only explains so much. You've got two kinds of divers...those who dive every weekend and those who dive only on vacation. The latter group often suffers from a lack of fundamental skills which stems from their only moderate interest in both the sport and becoming better and safer divers.

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