Smoking on a dive boat

[Mustard Dave]

I'd second Doc's point about Europe. There are plenty of smokers on all the boats I've been on - and the DM's are often the worst offenders. I've never seen anyone smoke while actually kitting up, though.

Smoke free legislation in Europe has reduced the number of smokers in enclosed spaces. In the UK, it is illegal to smoke in a workplace. There are some exceptions, such as prisons and designated hotel bedrooms, but the service industry is all smoke free.

European legislation is fairly vague. There are a number of European Directives that require member states to have certain laws. The particular wording is down to the individual member state. Many European nations allow smoking in bars, however, if they serve food as well it is banned. Smoking is generally not permitted in other business premises though.

Despite legislation, those on the continent do have a tendency to blatantly ignore legislation. I remember seeing a bloke in a Greek supermarket operating a meat slicer with a cig in his gob.

If somebody wants to smoke on a boat, I do not have a problem, provided they do it outside and away from non-smokers. There is a dive shop in Malta who our club uses every year. The owner is English, as are most the staff. A couple of the staff smoke but only a couple of our club members do. They are used to going otside for a smoke and respect our wishes. Last year, we were getting the ferry from Malta to Gozo. There were two options for the dive site and three vans. When we sorted out who was doing what, we were sat in our van. The instructor who was acting as our guide jumped in the driver's seat in a very jovial mood and rubbing his hands together. He said the owner was going to the other site which meant he could smoke. He then told us the owner had banned staff from smoking in view of customers. If he'd lit up in the van we would have objected, but banning smoking in an open space seemed a bit draconian.

I remember seeing a bloke at the quarry our club uses. I was walking in down the slipway on a hot day. The water was still cold so I was sweating with my hood and drysuit on. This enormous fat fella was walking at the side of me, grunting and smoking a cig. He was smoking it as long as he could and only gave it his mate on the side to dispose of when the water got too deep to stand in.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The point is that smoking get's too great of share of condemnation. Smoking is too easy of a target to pick at. Preticularly when compared to gang violence, drugs, industrial chemicals ect . that i believe take more life than cigaretts at this point. Alchohol related incidents not excluded.

... not according to the Center for Disease Control ...

More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.

CDC - Fact Sheet - Tobacco-Related Mortality - Smoking & Tobacco Use

But let's not let little things like facts get in the way of a good internet debate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2013 at 05:18 AM ----------

Despite legislation, those on the continent do have a tendency to blatantly ignore legislation. I remember seeing a bloke in a Greek supermarket operating a meat slicer with a cig in his gob.

Folks in the US have an illustrious history of doing the same. Last week a guy pulled in next to me at a gas station, got out of his car and started pumping gas with a cig in his gob. I got his attention, pointed to the "No Smoking" sign and asked him if he'd mind waiting till he was done pumping gas to finish that smoke. He told me he did mind, and for me to mind my own business. I told him that him smoking while pumping gas next to me was my business. At this point, other patrons started chiming in ... some considerably less polite than I was. The guy ignored us, finished pumping his gas, glared at us, dropped his still-lit butt on the pavement, and drove off.

That's the sort of dude that makes laws necessary ... only in this case, there already is a law and he chose to ignore it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dfx]

smoking is an appitite supressant whether by habit otr chemicaly. take the cigs from fat people and watch what happens.

That depends on the person. Some of them will lose weight. It's not an appetite suppressant. Otherwise there wouldn't be any fat people who smoke. It is possible to control what you're eating, you know?

 

[boulderjohn]

The point is that smoking get's too great of share of condemnation. Smoking is too easy of a target to pick at. Preticularly when compared to gang violence, drugs, industrial chemicals ect . that i believe take more life than cigaretts at this point. Alchohol related incidents not excluded.

In addition to your being wrong about the number of deaths, as Bob pointed out, I am wondering if it is your contention that governments, in particular the U.S. government, are not making as much of an effort to fight gang violence, drugs, and drinking while driving? It seems to me we have some pretty significant laws and money spent on enforcement of those laws right now. The number of people in jail for personal drug use is staggering.

 

[NAM001]

I think the cdc stats you are quoting is not totally accurate. If you break the data down in age groups Iwill bet that you will find that the old farts are dying by far more fromcigarettes that any other reason. Theyounger generations are going from other than cigarette related causes. They are going from street violence , druguse, cell texting, drinking, and generalstupidity. Granted that the young havenot had the chance to get old enough to suffer from long term effects fromany of these factors.. However if 1 of ten kids smoke there are 3-4kids on drugs if not more, perhaps 1 in gang’s. Lets not forget all the under 40 group that have a cell phone to their earor are texting and driving. All noncigarette related lifestyles. Bottomline is you are right we shouldn’t allow little things like facts to get in theway. Even more so we need to be wary ofwhat is presented as facts and how they are presented.
You are from the era (not calling you old) where everyonethat died died from heart failure. Thatis how the heart society got its start. Fromthe herendous numbers of heart related deaths as listed on death certs. The fact that lung cancer, or pneumonia,stroke or what ever stopped the heart was irrevilant. That patient died from heart failure. So no I don’t believe the statistics aspresented. My grandfather died from leukemia. Death cert said heart failure. Grand mother died from colon cancer ,,,,death cert heart failure. Yes COD detail varies from state tostate. This practice went on for years untilthe root cause was then listed as COD because even the feds could not use deathcert info when they all got listed as heart failure. So once again I don’t believe the statistics. I would also suspect that the stats mayactually mean smoking related deaths and not smoking caused deaths. Statistics will tell you anything you wantthem to tell you. Especially if there isfunding ect dependant on the numbers. Iftomorrow every one tomorrow quit smoking. The cdc will still have the same stats for decades until the old diehard puffers all die and finally show a more realistic representation of annualdeath statistics that are currently taking our younger generation.

... not according to the Center for Disease Control ...

More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.

CDC - Fact Sheet - Tobacco-Related Mortality - Smoking & Tobacco Use

But let's not let little things like facts get in the way of a good internet debate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2013 at 05:18 AM ----------



Folks in the US have an illustrious history of doing the same. Last week a guy pulled in next to me at a gas station, got out of his car and started pumping gas with a cig in his gob. I got his attention, pointed to the "No Smoking" sign and asked him if he'd mind waiting till he was done pumping gas to finish that smoke. He told me he did mind, and for me to mind my own business. I told him that him smoking while pumping gas next to me was my business. At this point, other patrons started chiming in ... some considerably less polite than I was. The guy ignored us, finished pumping his gas, glared at us, dropped his still-lit butt on the pavement, and drove off.

That's the sort of dude that makes laws necessary ... only in this case, there already is a law and he chose to ignore it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2013 at 11:10 AM ----------

THERE ARE JERKS ON BOTH SIDES OS THE ISSUE FOR SURE. You cant condone either of the behaviors, and you cant exterminate them so you just have to learn to co exist till nature removes them from the equation.

Smoke free legislation in Europe has reduced the number of smokers in enclosed spaces. In the UK, it is illegal to smoke in a workplace. There are some exceptions, such as prisons and designated hotel bedrooms, but the service industry is all smoke free.

European legislation is fairly vague. There are a number of European Directives that require member states to have certain laws. The particular wording is down to the individual member state. Many European nations allow smoking in bars, however, if they serve food as well it is banned. Smoking is generally not permitted in other business premises though.

Despite legislation, those on the continent do have a tendency to blatantly ignore legislation. I remember seeing a bloke in a Greek supermarket operating a meat slicer with a cig in his gob.

If somebody wants to smoke on a boat, I do not have a problem, provided they do it outside and away from non-smokers. There is a dive shop in Malta who our club uses every year. The owner is English, as are most the staff. A couple of the staff smoke but only a couple of our club members do. They are used to going otside for a smoke and respect our wishes. Last year, we were getting the ferry from Malta to Gozo. There were two options for the dive site and three vans. When we sorted out who was doing what, we were sat in our van. The instructor who was acting as our guide jumped in the driver's seat in a very jovial mood and rubbing his hands together. He said the owner was going to the other site which meant he could smoke. He then told us the owner had banned staff from smoking in view of customers. If he'd lit up in the van we would have objected, but banning smoking in an open space seemed a bit draconian.

I remember seeing a bloke at the quarry our club uses. I was walking in down the slipway on a hot day. The water was still cold so I was sweating with my hood and drysuit on. This enormous fat fella was walking at the side of me, grunting and smoking a cig. He was smoking it as long as he could and only gave it his mate on the side to dispose of when the water got too deep to stand in.

 

[dfx]

I think the cdc stats you are quoting is not totally accurate. If you break the data down in age groups Iwill bet that you will find that the old farts are dying by far more fromcigarettes that any other reason. Theyounger generations are going from other than cigarette related causes. They are going from street violence , druguse, cell texting, drinking, and generalstupidity. Granted that the young havenot had the chance to get old enough to suffer from long term effects fromany of these factors.. However if 1 of ten kids smoke there are 3-4kids on drugs if not more, perhaps 1 in gang’s. Lets not forget all the under 40 group that have a cell phone to their earor are texting and driving. All noncigarette related lifestyles.

Even if all of this is true, you seem to be forgetting a key factor. Even if a person is in one of your "young people high risk group", like a gang member, they can still be a smoker! None of all of this is mutually exclusive, so it doesn't matter, not even the slightest bit.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think the cdc stats you are quoting is not totally accurate.

You would be doing a great service to America if you were to contact the experts in the CDC and explain to them the inadequacy of their research methodologies. I am sure the people who earned their Ph.Ds in statistical analysis will be thrilled to have you set them straight, and they will no doubt be furious to realize how inadequate their graduate studies were. Your service could go well beyond this study, for once enlightened, they will be able to apply their profound new learning to the other studies they perform.

 

[DiverAmy]

I spent my lunch hour reading this thread. What I got from it is a love affair with a new (to me) word: sheeple. I, too, hope to be counted among my designated flock of sheeple!

 

[261311]

Is anyone else impressed that KWS continues to try and spin fact into fiction because of "clauses"?

We're talking about the total amount of smokers, who directly die because of smoking, to the total amount of drugs and alcohol, murders, gang deaths and suicides. Separating them by age does absolutely nothing to combat this logic unless we're creating new statistics. The fact is smoking is indeed long term, with several short term negatives, the other factors mentioned are decidedly short term. However, those who don't die (gang violence, suicides, murder, overdoses) end up living longer than their short term mistakes leading to possible life changes from interventions such as rehab, prison, beliefs and social pressures, epiphanies (admittedly small to ingrained nature). In that time, they may become smokers but in the CDC's research there are most definitely requirements a statistic has to meet to become useful. We're not talking about gangsters who took up smoking yesterday and got shot after getting out of bed. That's not a smoking related death, we're talking about people who have been smoking for more than likely 10+ years at a specific frequency or higher. If anything, other statistics actually overshadow smoking statistics because they didn't meet the requirements to be considered a smoker, so instead when they died they were placed under some other category such as gang violence, murder, natural causes, etc. what if a gangster smoked so many cigarettes for a month straight from starting and because of which, found it difficult to take cover during a drive by because he was exhausted? Smoking statistics are probably vastly under-estimated if we're talking about being wrong about research.

By the way, there are some aspects in life we all have to live with and grow to "deal with", I agree. However, for the same reason we choose to vote for politicians who can make changes so we don't have to deal with things we don't like and we continually vote with that in mind. I can't speak for other voters but if something such as murder and gang violence in a constituency pisses me off, I'm going to vote in politicians who the have power to contract and hire people such as the police to deal with matters. In turn, my vote may change if smoking comes up depending on the issues because I do not want to just "deal with" something that affects my health.

Another thing for a smoker to consider is we actually get none of this chemical enjoyment of relaxation for our nerves smoking claims to give you, only the carcinogenic exhaust; we're not actually even benefiting while you decide to kill us with your rights.

 

[jar546]

Please just realize that there are people who simply like to stir the pot and have nothing better to do than create controversy and engage in argument. What everyone is doing is feeding that person by acknowledging their outrageous opinions. I am so glad this thread has answered my OP. LOL