So confused with Jacket BC's & BP/W's!!!

[Jorgy]

A 115 foot NJ Wreck Dive (even without penetration) is not a trivial dive.........

The thread started out about BP/W versus BCD.........if NJ wreck diving is your long term plan then a BP/W is the way to go........

Now about open ocean deep wreck dives............

We are talking about lots of exposure protection (drysuit??), visability and current can be hit or miss......so maybe a HID canister light so you can see and DSMB in case you get blown off the wreck and can't come back up the anchor line.......

The dive charters I have spoken to require doubles or at least a 30 cubic foot pony......at a minimum AOW cert, with lots of deep dives..........

At 115 feet on air, bottom time is very limited, so maybe NITROX at 28%.............

None of these items are deal breakers; just know that this type of diving will require a lot of gear, training and experience to do safely...........

That being said, descending on a wreck at 100 feet and see it materialize out of the darkness is an awesome experience.............I dive wrecks every chance I get...........

M

 

[drdaddy]

Supratt4,

Years ago, I started out with a jacket style BCD and a wetsuit. And that is what I dive today. When you are beginning, you can get real overwhelmed with the gadgetry of diving and it will cost you a lot of money. My suggestion is to start conservatively. Most people today are diving with a jacket style BCD. One reason I like it because I have everything I need without having to buy, add on, modify, etc. When you travel around the world and even in our Pacific NW waters, you will see that most people have a jacket BCD and are very happy with them.

I am not suggesting that anything is wrong with a BP/W. But they can be "overkill" in most kinds of recreational diving. I have tried them and they are not for me. However, I do believe that they do have their place - specifically in tech diving and for those that want to push the limits. I would caution you to beware of "pseudo tech" - those who go out for the gadgetry to look cool. This kind of "latest/techiest" can become addictive and expensive and make one feel like they aren't a "real diver" unless you are doing "tech". Now, those that have moved to a more technical diving style will consistently write, "I wish that I had started with a BP/W". This is not a rational-objective argument for you to do so. Most have started with a jacket style BCD and are content to stay with one - I know many of these divers - it really depends on who you run with.

Start diving - buy soon, as renting quickly becomes more expensive than owning your own. My suggestion would be buy a jacket style BCD - look for a used one. A lot of dive shops will sell used equipment - my LDS does. Dive with others and you will eventually find your niche and will then buy what your friends have. If it is tech/deep wreck diving, you will be getting a backplate with doubles and adding all kinds of gear. But by that time, you will know that is the direction you want to go.

However, my SeaQuest/Aqualung Pro-QD has plenty of inflation/buoyancy to go down (and up) 100 plus feet with that HP/3442 119 cf steel, plenty of rings to hang my lights, crab nets, fish stringer, spool, signal sausage, as well as pockets for my extra mask, extra knives, and signal flares, and I carry a fully redundant air supply/pony as well.

About a drysuit. I dive every other weekend - sometimes every weekend - in 48 degree water with a farmer john 7mm wetsuit and am just fine. My dive buddy is fine too. We do a lot of jetty/bay diving. Depth is usually 50 or less feet and we catch a lot of crabs and spear as many fish as I want. Sometimes we move into 100 feet and less and enjoy the view.

My son is a PADI Instructor and he loves his jacket BCD. But he is a skinny tropical diver and he is very miserable in a 7mm wetsuit in our cooler water. He used to be fine here, but got spoiled by the warm water. If he was to get serious about diving our cooler waters, it would be with a drysuit.

Slow down - enjoy your diving. And don't get into "deep" until you know where you're going.

drdaddy

 

[fnfalman]

I have no interest in going technical diving any time soon. Maybe in the future, but not any time soon. But I still prefer my backplate&wing for fitting and performance. Let's face it, I'm short and I'm fat. Most jacket BCs don't fit me correctly and not to mention that I hate the feeling of being wrapped up.

 

[halocline]

I am not suggesting that anything is wrong with a BP/W. But they can be "overkill" in most kinds of recreational diving. I have tried them and they are not for me. However, I do believe that they do have their place - specifically in tech diving and for those that want to push the limits. I would caution you to beware of "pseudo tech" - those who go out for the gadgetry to look cool. This kind of "latest/techiest" can become addictive and expensive and make one feel like they aren't a "real diver" unless you are doing "tech".

This makes no sense. What do you mean by "overkill"? BP/W set ups are far less laden with gadgetry and more minimalistic than jacket BCs. They are also, conceptually, older than jacket styles BCs, not by any stretch of the imagination "latest and greatest", and designed specifically for function, without any regard to "looking cool." Those are characteristics much more associated with the typical jacket BCs that overpopulate dive shops.

Two huge benefits of the BP/W for ALL diving, not just tech diving, are: 1) It puts the ballast, or a portion of it, on your back in between the wing and your lungs, which are primary sources of buoyancy. Having the ballast and buoyancy located like this is very beneficial for trim and buoyancy control. 2) It couples the tank to your back by providing solid points of contact that eliminate any instability.

Jacket BCs are just a terrible design concept for performance in diving. They're more like a life preserver with cambands, and that's part of why so many beginning students are trained in them.

 

[gbf]

I've heard it said over and over: If you're doing "serious" dives (wrecks, caves, etc) then a bpw is where it's at. If "all" you're doing is rec dives, then a jacket is "fine".

To me "fine" means "sub-optimal". Even with all the gimcrackery the mfgrs have added (d rings, pockets, rear weights, "neutrally bouyant padding", adjustable straps, hose pull dumps, etc.etc.) to make a jacket work almost as well as a bpw why would you purposely put yourself into such a box?

Just as a point of reference my bc's went like this, starting in 1974: seaquest horsecollar, wing on doubles no plate, wing on doubles with homemade plate then purchased plate, scubapro jacket for me, seaquest jacket for wife (shortlived, both still in the closet), bp(small)w for me, bp(small)w x 3 for wife and kids - and all we do now is caribbean vacation diving.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

-a single tank adapter is used on almost every brand of BP/W system (except DSS I think) and is what rigidly mounts the tank to the backplate. If the diver is diving double tanks then this component is omitted.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrr, love the cut of your jib, NorthWoodsDiver! My comments on STAs:

I have a DiveRite Transpac and a generic steel backplate. Neither require a single tank adaptor. The thing to look for is whether the plate or harness and the wing have slots for the cam bands that hold a single tank. If either item has holes for the bolts but omits the slots, you need an adaptor.

From my observation, the Halcyon products do not have the slots, therefore you need to spend $100+ new (or about $50 used) on an STA with them. Other products, like the Transpac, my generic plate, the DiveRite Venture Wing, the DiveRite Travel Wing, DSS products, and the Apeks WRX3 wing, have the necessary slots and do not require the STA.

Some folks still use the adaptor even if the rig doesn't require it. An adaptor adds a couple of pounds of weight evenly distributed on the back, which is nice for trim and more comfortable than on a heavy weight belt. I am not an expert on the subject of removable vs. fixed weight, so I suggest research before choosing how to arrange weight. To give an extreme example, I purchased my back plate used and it came with an STA (even though it is not required). The owner had melted lead into the STA to bring it up to a hefty twelve pounds, making the BP + STA weigh a total of 18 pounds.

I won't be using that adaptor with my 3mil suit in Cozumel. For recreational dives.

 

[Gombessa]

Without getting into the "mine's better" game, my opinion is that a backplate and wing is never "overkill" in a situation where a jacket BC is appropriate. A bp/w is appropriate for those looking forward to tech, but it's a simple and modular system (it's just an air bladder and an attachment point between you and your tank) that it can also be ideal for recreational diving.

If you have a chance to try one out in the water, I would highly recommend it. The best way is probably to get in touch with some local divers, who I've found are generally more than happy to let you try out gear and discuss the benefits/drawbacks for the type of diving they do.

Also, as a new diver, there's no real rush to buy expensive scuba equipment. Consider renting for a few months so you have a chance to try out more gear and decide what you like and what you don't like before handing someone several hundred (or more likely, thousand) dollars on equipment.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I am a new diver, just getting certified and I was looking at purchasing my own equipment. After asking a question about 2 BC's that I had liked, I was told to look into Backplate & Wing setups. After searching and reading tons of posts on here and doing more research though google, I am completely confused!!

Can someone point me to a website or a thread that simply explains the pros and cons of both of these??

The comparing and contrasting conventional BC's, as a group against BP&W's, as a group is pretty straight forward.

Both are Buoyancy Compensators.

In my experience much of the confusion surround BP&W's stems is a result of their modular nature.

With most conventional BC's you have few options, it is what it is. For a given model or style ize and or color is often about it. The advantage is the "BC" is a "turnkey" deal, it's all there.

With a BP&W you have a range of plate materials , aluminum, plastic, stainless steel, a choice in plate size, choices in harness types, and a potentially bewildering array of wing options.

Add to this the issues of "STA" or "Direct Mount" and the possible # of combination's is huge.

I'd be happy to help walk you through how to select the appropriate components for your application.

Tobin

 

[TSandM]

I think the biggest advantage to a BP/W setup for cold water divers is that five or more pounds of your ballast becomes an integral part of your gear, and you don't have to carry any ballast to sink the padding on your BC. We checked our back-inflate BCs, and they were 3 lbs positive, which meant we had to carry three pounds just to sink THEM. With a backplate, I shed that three pounds, and put five pounds up on my back, and cut the amount on my weight belt by eight pounds, which was awfully nice.

There is a reason we have a TON of backplate users in the PNW.

 

[Dive Junky]

I am a new diver, just getting certified and I was looking at purchasing my own equipment. After asking a question about 2 BC's that I had liked, I was told to look into Backplate & Wing setups. After searching and reading tons of posts on here and doing more research though google, I am completely confused!!

Can someone point me to a website or a thread that simply explains the pros and cons of both of these??

Its really all about what you like personally. No one can tell you what you will like better and unfortunately what you like may change as your skill level advances. You really need to try each out and decide what you like.

I prefered rear inflation when I started diving but when I started diving dry and using my suit for buoyancy I went to a jacket BC because I liked the way it felt on the surface and that was the only time it had air in it.

Many of the gear manafacturers have demo days at Dutch Springs. You might want to look into that before you make any expensive mistakes.