So why wouldn't you support a good LDS?

[MXGratefulDiver]

But if you found a really good dive shop with competive pricing and great service, why would you shop anywhere else?

... because even the best LDS cannot fulfill all of my needs.

I HAVE a good dive shop ... no, a GREAT dive shop ... that I do business with. I couldn't be happier with these guys. They give me great prices on equipment, I pay a flat fee of $100 a month for unlimited nitrox fills ... which works out well for both of us, and I buy some equipment there. I also send people into their shop regularly ... when appropriate. And, to boot, these guys are more like friends than business associates. So there is nothing to complain about.

However, I cannot say that they get my business exclusively. First off, I teach through another business ... one where, because of my professional association with them can provide me with keyman pricing on some equipment, and staff prices on things like VIPs and reg repairs. Considering that I own something like 30 tanks and 11 regulators, that adds up.

I also have excellent business relationships with some online shops ... and occasionally purchase big-ticket items through those businesses.

Would my LDS prefer that I purchase everything through them? Probably. But, frankly, they get more of my money than all the other businesses combined ... plus they get a lot of business from folks I steer their way. So it's not in their best interest to make an expectation that I would deal with them exclusively ... because that would only drive me out of their store.

There are a lot of dive shops in my area. There are very few I would call BAD shops ... only two that I can think of that I would recommend people stay away from. The majority are shops that I would put in the "hit or miss" category ... meaning that they do well at some things and not so well at others. Most I would recommend under appropriate circumstances ... like, if someone were looking for a specific piece of equipment that the shop carries. Some I would recommend only if you intend to become a "regular" ... because they do have a two-tiered pricing structure depending on whether or not they see you in the store repeatedly. Some are hit-or-miss with respect to the people you will be dealing with ... in which case I will recommend that you speak to specific people if you should go in there. And some (many, unfortunately) are shops I would not recommend you take a class with ... either because they hire what I consider substandard instructors, or because they market con-ed classes a bit too heavily.

Each shop is unique in some way ... none are perfect ... but most have some redeeming qualities that would make them worth developing a relationship with. What I do not understand ... and probably never will ... is this insistence on "loyalty". That would be like saying that you're only ever going to buy your groceries at Albertsons ... who does that? My purchases are based on (a) need, (b) availability, (c) price, (d) convenience and (e) business relationships ... and in just about that order of priority. If a shop owner has an issue with my priorities, then we probably shouldn't be doing business together ... and buying scuba equipment and services IS a business decision ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

I guess I need to develop a new appreciation for my local shop in Colorado. Let me tell you what they do that some of you might suggest to you own LDS. First, for students who certify there they give a substantial discount on equipment purchased before, during and within a few months of the course taken. Second, they sponsor dive trips that are a real godsend for those divers who don't have the time or don't want to plan and book their own travel. Third, they sponsor a dive club that has social activities that include, but are not limited to diving. Fourth, they limit their inventory of gear to a few lines (which holds down overhead) but they can order anything you want. Fifth, they have a pool, and they make it available to students and customers who buy equipment to mark some pool time before a dive trip to familiarize themselves with the new gear or to refresh their skills, at no cost, when the pool is not otherwise occupied. I have bought a few things online, but I'd rather get gear that fits me, that I am oriented on by a knowledgeable distributor, and I like knowing that I can get it serviced where I bought it. So there is the other side of the coin. Not all dive shops are alike. I am glad I have a good one. It is my friend.
DivemasterDennis

One of my local shops would fit that description and it is a great shop in many ways. But his prices are not what I would call "good". He is strictly an Aqualung dealer and honors the price constraints that brings with it. But his clientele tend to be a bit upscale so they place a lot more emphasis on services and facilities than on best prices so it works for them. That seems like it may be the situation you are describing.

 

[RTee]

I support good LDS but some are less local than others. Just like GratefulBob, not all of them offer what I require, therefore I will tailor my purchase for what they may be able to provide for me. I get my tanks and air at the one that is the closest to me because that is his forte. However, most of my recreational gear including all my GF add-on equipment were purchased at a diving store 120 miles away. Having said that, most of my technical gear was purchased from two stores that are located (according to Google map) 1500 miles from my house (based on brand and recommandation). Excellent service and I plan to eventually meet for sure one of the owner the next time I go diving in Florida. lol.

 

[Rhone Man]

I don't buy any gear at my LDS because the costs tend to be high, and they cannot compete with the range of online retailers.

But I still actively support them every chance I get. I worked with them to set up a scuba training programme at the local school, and organised groups of younger kids to take PADI Seal classes. I recommend them to potential visitors to the BVI (including lots of people here on SB) when asked. And of course there are air fills and servicing.

Sad to say, dive instructors tend not to make very hard headed business people. I am very happy to work with my LDS to find ways that they can make money by providing a useful service. I genuinely hope that they survive and thrive. But in the long term - buying dive gear from an LDS is going to be a dying market.

 

[aquaregia]

None of the LDSs near me sell anything I want to buy. There is one that's not too far away, and their prices aren't bad, but by the time I've spent 90 minutes driving and thrown another $10 or so down in gas, I'd really just rather mail order.

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

The idea of supporting your local dive shop in itself is absurd!

A LDS is a business and it exists to serve it's customers not the other way around.
When it ceaces to do so in efficiently it goes out of business and if their is enough demand for the services and goods another will eventially open to fill that need.
Fulfilling customers needs in a efficient manner requires a shop to be able to have goods in stock or be able to get them within a reasonable time frame and sell them at competative prices. Today unlike in the past that means competing with retailers that may not be local. If because of high rents or utility costs they can not compete then their business model is flawed and they will not be able to maintain a cashflow and stay in business. Offering services at rates that are above the market norm will not gain any profits and again the business will fail.

It is in your best interest as a customer to allow the LDS to support you as best they can and only when they do it with a level of professionalism that you would expect from any other business dealing. They are customers of the manufacturers and as such should require that same level of professionalism of the manufacturers they deal with. If a manufacturer doesn't support their dealers in a way that allows them to properly pass on a level of value to the end user then the dealer should find a manufacturer that does. This allows them to properly support you.

This really isn't rocket science it is taught in every business school. So when people start to think they should pay more for equipment or service just to maintain a place to fill their tanks it is laughable. Wise up folks it would be to your advantage to form up with the others in your area in the same situation and form a club with non-profit status and purchase a fill station and insurance. Think of all the other advantages of making group buys and taking advantage of group rates without a LDS acting as a middleman and taking a cut. A large enough group could in fact run a not for profit dive club fully equipped with a full or part time dive shop and even keep a instructor and/or service tech on staff at a preset salary and avoid many of the costs of maintaining the groups gear and training.

 

[Seraphimx]

Group buys would be kinda of a temporary thing, since groups, coops etc. would need central people that care about it. And knowing about this first hand they fail after the central person or group gets tired of doing all the work for free.
While private organizations will always care about their business.

It is true that Dive Clubs in Europe mainly, buy stock and teach in a group and it's MUCH cheaper. But the need must be there. In Europe it exist because the Mediterranean sea is not far, Cities are much more populated. So it's easy to take a Small Packed city and make a dive club. Here? Well it takes me 2hr per weekend to go dive. You'd have to have a LOT of DEDICATED divers. It's hard to find. In Europe, the city lies next to the sea, you can go to the Scuba club walking from your house in 10min, the beach is a 10min walk from there. Ya it's easier.

What is wonderful about the internet is that it will cull the LDS with bad business practices and help the LDS with good business practices. Furthermore, a LDS, IMO, should have an online interface or shop. Generally, online cart systems work hand in hand with an inventory system and accounting. This permits a better management and control on overhead. It's a bit hardcore for small dive shops but bigger ones can see the benefit from it.

Now people will moan it's expensive, yes it is like anything in business. My family owns a manufacturing shop in Canada and we are thinking about putting a better system for control of material and labour. It'll cost about 150, 000$, do we have that kinda money, no, will we need to have to get that kinda money. Yes. Day by day we compete with foreign labour, even my field that is custom made items. If we don't get the tools needed to be competitive we will fail. Should I bitch and moan about it? No, I should walk forward and improve the business. Yes.

Same thing about any domain. Internet EXISTS. You don't adapt to it, you die.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Your question is really rather rhetorical. I don't know anyone who shops online when they have a dive shop with prices and service in a combination that are equal or less than the cost of purchasing online. Then, the only reason to shop online would be dogma.

I buy at shops that earn my business, no matter what sport or need. I've gone to lots of shops and turned around and left within minutes because I realized they would not supply what I needed, be it the actual product, the service, or the shopping environment.

I support the same shops in the area I dive because I've gotten amazing service from them. From loaning me personal gear to dive with when I've forgotten something at home 8 hours away, to opening early when I needed a fill, to coming in at midnight for help with a gear repair in the middle of a class, at no charge, they have earned my business.

They earn nearly 100% of their money from me by providing me with air fills. In fact, I dare say that most of the sales the shops do is air fills. This myth about "we're not making money on fills" is getting old. I've never seen a dive shop owner who can tell me exactly what each cubic foot of air costs them. I've never seen a break even point analysis on their air fills. I think they are more content complaining about their low revenue than trying to figure out the cause, or to fix it.

That's fine by me. I prefer for shops with poor service to go out of business.

I really don't need a shop for much more than air fills, and I hope to have the ability to pump some gas myself within a few years. Most of my gear I buy used (some from the shop manager, actually). I don't buy much anymore...I've got one of just about everything I need aside from more sets of doubles, and eventually a rebreather, or a better camera setup. I'm fully setup to service all of my gear myself, and I can get hydros done at a fire extinguisher place. I have enough tanks that I really just need one dive shop between Miami and Gainesville, a 350 mile stretch, to get fills, and I'm set for a weekend of diving.

What if we start a thread asking "Why don't you be a better business, LDS?"

 

[redacted]

What if we start a thread asking "Why don't you be a better business, LDS?"

That would be about as popular as taking a leak off the bow of the boat.

 

[scubamarketing]

I guess I need to develop a new appreciation for my local shop in Colorado. Let me tell you what they do that some of you might suggest to you own LDS. First, for students who certify there they give a substantial discount on equipment purchased before, during and within a few months of the course taken. Second, they sponsor dive trips that are a real godsend for those divers who don't have the time or don't want to plan and book their own travel. Third, they sponsor a dive club that has social activities that include, but are not limited to diving. Fourth, they limit their inventory of gear to a few lines (which holds down overhead) but they can order anything you want. Fifth, they have a pool, and they make it available to students and customers who buy equipment to mark some pool time before a dive trip to familiarize themselves with the new gear or to refresh their skills, at no cost, when the pool is not otherwise occupied. I have bought a few things online, but I'd rather get gear that fits me, that I am oriented on by a knowledgeable distributor, and I like knowing that I can get it serviced where I bought it. So there is the other side of the coin. Not all dive shops are alike. I am glad I have a good one. It is my friend.
DivemasterDennis

Yes, consider yourself fortunate! This sounds very much like the LDS I previously worked for and none of these things sound outlandish, just good customer service. One big difference was my old shop carries a TON of lines and has a huge variety of sizes/colors in stock at all times. It's a ~2,500 square foot house, but that includes showroom, compressor room, fill banks, several repair areas, offices, changing rooms, rental storage and inventory. It's jammed full, but not a mess. They have established such good relationships with their vendors, if they have to order something, they can usually have it within 3 days. A diver would have to wait that long on my current employer to get something. It can be done!

Group buys would be kinda of a temporary thing, since groups, coops etc. would need central people that care about it. And knowing about this first hand they fail after the central person or group gets tired of doing all the work for free.
While private organizations will always care about their business.

It is true that Dive Clubs in Europe mainly, buy stock and teach in a group and it's MUCH cheaper. But the need must be there. In Europe it exist because the Mediterranean sea is not far, Cities are much more populated. So it's easy to take a Small Packed city and make a dive club. Here? Well it takes me 2hr per weekend to go dive. You'd have to have a LOT of DEDICATED divers. It's hard to find. In Europe, the city lies next to the sea, you can go to the Scuba club walking from your house in 10min, the beach is a 10min walk from there. Ya it's easier.

What is wonderful about the internet is that it will cull the LDS with bad business practices and help the LDS with good business practices. Furthermore, a LDS, IMO, should have an online interface or shop. Generally, online cart systems work hand in hand with an inventory system and accounting. This permits a better management and control on overhead. It's a bit hardcore for small dive shops but bigger ones can see the benefit from it.

Now people will moan it's expensive, yes it is like anything in business. My family owns a manufacturing shop in Canada and we are thinking about putting a better system for control of material and labour. It'll cost about 150, 000$, do we have that kinda money, no, will we need to have to get that kinda money. Yes. Day by day we compete with foreign labour, even my field that is custom made items. If we don't get the tools needed to be competitive we will fail. Should I bitch and moan about it? No, I should walk forward and improve the business. Yes.

Same thing about any domain. Internet EXISTS. You don't adapt to it, you die.

Some manufacturers are very anti-online stores, but there's no reason (that I'm aware of) that even a small LDS couldn't at least list the products they carry online with a "call/email for pricing" on the site.