SeaHorse81
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And also get warmer, if that's an issue.
Starting Drysuit Class
- Thread starter Mike126
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And also get warmer, if that's an issue.
highspeed
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tbone, my apologies, but i really mean the NEW new suits. Ie. the fusion suits by Whites and such. they have these plastic ridged cuffs that you pull the seal all the way over. Don't know much about the topic, I just use the fusion suit that has this feature.
The book Dry Suit Diving: A Guide to Diving Dry (4th edition) was written by Barsky, Long, and Stinton of DUI, so it is essentially a DUI manual. Here is an excerpt from page 94:
Not just DUI.
Viking Drysuit Users Manual
Page 28:
8 Descending
Add weight until you are slightly negative.
If you wish to descend, roll over on your right side so the outlet valve (and left shoulder) is at the highest point, allowing the valve to exhaust some air. Your buoyancy will decrease and you will slowly sink.
Stop your descent
To prevent further venting of suit air return to normal swimming position and, if necessary, add a little air to the suit to regain neutral buoyancy.
Viking Drysuit Users Manual
Page 28:
8 Descending
Add weight until you are slightly negative.
If you wish to descend, roll over on your right side so the outlet valve (and left shoulder) is at the highest point, allowing the valve to exhaust some air. Your buoyancy will decrease and you will slowly sink.
Stop your descent
To prevent further venting of suit air return to normal swimming position and, if necessary, add a little air to the suit to regain neutral buoyancy.
"Controlling both air compartments is an advanced dry suit diving skill and is not recommended for the novice dry suit diver" .
That's not what I was told nor shown in my own drysuit course ten years ago. I still disagree that it's an advanced skill.
I don't have that book. What does it say about how to properly weight for diving dry? I'd be curious to see that.
---------- Post added October 31st, 2014 at 07:09 PM ----------
From his Amazon bio. There is a DUI- Viking tie in
"In 1978, Barsky joined the staff of the Florida PADI College in Jacksonville, Florida. As Training Director, Barsky was responsible for open water training and screening applicants for admission into the College. This program was one of the first private extended instructor training programs in the country, after which all current programs of this type are modeled. Barsky was marketing manager for Viking America, Inc., an international manufacturer of dry suits"
later states
"and a joint author with Dick Long and Bob Stinton of Dry Suit Diving: A Guide to Diving Dry"
That's not what I was told nor shown in my own drysuit course ten years ago. I still disagree that it's an advanced skill.
I don't have that book. What does it say about how to properly weight for diving dry? I'd be curious to see that.
---------- Post added October 31st, 2014 at 07:09 PM ----------
From his Amazon bio. There is a DUI- Viking tie in
"In 1978, Barsky joined the staff of the Florida PADI College in Jacksonville, Florida. As Training Director, Barsky was responsible for open water training and screening applicants for admission into the College. This program was one of the first private extended instructor training programs in the country, after which all current programs of this type are modeled. Barsky was marketing manager for Viking America, Inc., an international manufacturer of dry suits"
later states
"and a joint author with Dick Long and Bob Stinton of Dry Suit Diving: A Guide to Diving Dry"
if the shop is willing to consider this option, replacing a neck seal is really neither difficult nor expensive. Esp. if the rental suit's existing seal is showing some age/wear/degradation (it gets kinda soft and sticky, rips a bit easily) a new seal might be a good maintenance investment for the shop and will give them a rental suit for customers with slimmer necks.
if you do dive with a neck seal thats just a wee bit too big, try to strictly avoid getting anywhere near vertical. Any time you lift your head enough to allow air to escape out the neck the exiting air will be accompanied by incoming water.
if you do dive with a neck seal thats just a wee bit too big, try to strictly avoid getting anywhere near vertical. Any time you lift your head enough to allow air to escape out the neck the exiting air will be accompanied by incoming water.
It starts by talking about the differences depending upon things like the kind of undergarment being used. Then it says on page #90:
This is an entire book, mind you, so I am only pulling off excerpts and typing them in with my meager typing skills. There is a lot more to it than this.
---------- Post added October 31st, 2014 at 05:52 PM ----------
Since Jim seemed to question the credibility of the authors of the book I cited, I thought I would give more information...
Steven Barsky has been an instructor since 1970, and has written numerous books on diving, in addition to his work with Viking Dry Suits.
Dick Long has been an instructor since the original NAUI training session in Houston in 1960. He is the founder of DUI. He is in the Commercial Diving Hall of Fame, The NAUI Hall of Fame, and was the DAN Rolex Diver of the Year.
Bob Stinton joined DUI in 1965. He joined the Navy and dived there before rejoining DUI after leaving the Navy. At the time of the writing of this book, he was Vice-President of engineering at DUI.
Maybe these guys don't have enough street cred for everyone, but in my mind I suspect they may have picked up something during their diving careers, and I am inclined to give them credit for that.
OP -- As you will be taking a class, I'd really suggest doing what the instructor suggests. As an instructor who often does the dry suit class, I'm asked this question every time and I give the same answer -- do what works for you.
I explain my learning path -- started with just enough air to minimize the squeeze and the BCD for primary buoyancy control, in no small part because that is what I was used to doing. Then, as I got more comfortable, I used a little of both. Now, with a fair amount of experience, I use my dry suit almost exclusively for buoyancy control.
Re the too loose neck seal -- good luck. With the "modern" systems, I really don't understand why a shop would have a rental dry suit that doesn't have replaceable seals.
Actually, I don't understand why shops use anything other than the White's Fusion with replaceable seals. The suit inventory would be decreased due to each suit fitting many different shapes and sizes; the seals are relatively cheap. Heck, if it was my shop, I'd sell each student a set of seals and make the suit rental rock bottom to encourage them to come back and/or buy the suit.
I explain my learning path -- started with just enough air to minimize the squeeze and the BCD for primary buoyancy control, in no small part because that is what I was used to doing. Then, as I got more comfortable, I used a little of both. Now, with a fair amount of experience, I use my dry suit almost exclusively for buoyancy control.
Re the too loose neck seal -- good luck. With the "modern" systems, I really don't understand why a shop would have a rental dry suit that doesn't have replaceable seals.
Actually, I don't understand why shops use anything other than the White's Fusion with replaceable seals. The suit inventory would be decreased due to each suit fitting many different shapes and sizes; the seals are relatively cheap. Heck, if it was my shop, I'd sell each student a set of seals and make the suit rental rock bottom to encourage them to come back and/or buy the suit.
Understood. To be honest my statement was based on a conversation I had with an agency training director earlier this week. He relayed that he was contacted by several mfg's after stating in an article he wrote that a dry suit could be used as primary buoyancy control. I wrongly surmised that this was true across the industry. My apologies for my ignorance of these guidelines by some.
I do like that they state those weighting directions. The issue I have run into with drysuit students I've not had for earlier training is that they don't know what proper weighting is. Their previous training often had them grossly overweighted.
I do like that they state those weighting directions. The issue I have run into with drysuit students I've not had for earlier training is that they don't know what proper weighting is. Their previous training often had them grossly overweighted.
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and you are still, really wrong. The Whites do not come standard with the Seal Lock Technology "SLT" system, it is a $250 or a $350 option to the suit. If your shop only sells suits with the SLT system installed that is one thing, but they are not standard on their suits, it is an option you have to choose when you purchase or upgrade to later. It is highly recommended and pretty foolish to not choose to upgrade to that system since it will save you time and money over the life of the suit, but the fact still stands that with the exception of DUI who has now decided to make zip seals standard on all of their suits, really it's to make them more money since zip seals are insanely expensive, only 2 or 3 suit models, and these are specific models from suit manufacturers namely 4th Element and Waterproof, that come standard from the factory with the Si-Tech ring system. The rest of the models come with normal wrist seals as would a Whites Fusion if you ordered it straight from the factory
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