Student to Instructor Ratio!

[dive_lover88]

I agree.the best ratio is 1:4. My OW class had 2 instructor, 1 acting as DM and had 4 students

 

[RonFrank]

Open water lessons here for basic course is 1:2 (one instructor to 2 students).

After forming some relationships with photographers in the UK, my impression of overall costs to do things there (classes, gear, whatever) is that it is MUCH MUCH higher vs. the US.

In the States one can get a 1:2 ratio, but it's going to cost, and most do not need, or bother to pay the price.

IMO the 1:3 instructor to student ratio we had in our OW class was fine, and the $$ we paid made the course affordable to those who are not even sure they like to dive... which regardless of how SAFE that appears is a big factor for people making a decision on if they want to try diving.

 

[RonFrank]

."Any idiot can be a _____________".

Brain surgeon..

Nuclear scientist...

Stem Cell scientist....

Hmm...

As to if any idiot can get certified to instruct, difficult to say. However, I did have a DM turn OFF my air when I asked him for an air check......

 

[String]

After forming some relationships with photographers in the UK, my impression of overall costs to do things there (classes, gear, whatever) is that it is MUCH MUCH higher vs. the US.

Its not really as bad as that. The UK generally is very expensive to buy anything, PADI courses are probably about twice what they are in the USA and follow all the normal PADI standards for courses, requirements, ratios etc. However with BSAC (which is my agency hence me posting that ratio) classes are free. Its an amateur non-profit setup relying on the goodwill of members to teach others. You pay a small yearly membership (mainly for 3rd party liability) and a monthly membership of a club (usually to cover boat maintenance etc) and thats it. Instructors dont get paid. Although gear is expensive doing it this way means you dont pay anything at all for classes. About the only thing instructors get is a small (£5) reduction in the annual membership fee.
Your training comes free but it then relies on the good will of the person to eventually put back in what they get out by eventually instructing or assisting themselves to the next batch of people. In short it actually costs us to instruct by the time we pay for fuel, boat or site entrance fees, gas fills etc.

1:2 is a nice ratio as it means the students get to learn to act as a buddy pair, they get to see the other student demonstrate and perform drills all with instructor oversight. For skills like controlled buoyant lifts and alternate air source stuff you need a non instructor to act as a victim anyway (standards say the instructor cant do this task and must observe ready to intervene if needed instead).
Other than the above drills open water especially the first few dives is typically done in a 1:1 ratio.

Large numbers arent really practical in the conditions either. 5-8ft vis being the norm you cant have a lot of people trying to go around as a group, more than 3 and normally you get problems which is the last thing you want with students.

 

[TeddyDiver]

You're right, any idiot can be an instructor. But that's true for every job on earth. Heck, fill in the blank...."Any idiot can be a _____________".!

President?
Sorry couldn't resist...

 

[TCDiver1]

."Any idiot can be a _____________".

The old "any idiot can be a blank" debate can be so shallow. There are idiots in all walks of life. Specific training does not preclude one from being an idiot.

All agencies train and require their instructors to follow established standards. Once an instructor punches their teaching ticket, it's largely left up to the instructors integrity to teach within standards. Some instructors have integrity, some don't. Some take pride in what they do and some are only in it for the money or prestige that can come with it.

Scuba instructors are not immune to such character flaws. Although many would say the industry is set up to emphasize such flaws, i don't buy into that. It is still each individual instructors responsibility to him/herself, and their students, to do a good job.

And for those that think learning to teach scuba today is idiots folly, i suggest you sign up for an IDC or IE before you rush to judgement. You just may find out you are a bigger idiot, than the idiots you have observed teaching today.

 

[SteveDiver]

Improving buoyancy and learning not to scull can come with time and practice, but I totally agree that this instructor should be reported for certifying students who failed to complete all the required tasks, and for not adhering to standards for ratios. The ratios are minimums as well, meant for ideal conditions. Certainly in tougher conditions, like here in colder water and low viz, there should be extra instructors and/or divemasters as well for safety.
I think it's awesome that you helped out your friends, who were after all, certified divers at that point. However, I do want to comment on your taking them out for a night dive. First night dives and deep dives should really be done with an instructor (not that instructor of course!) in an advanced class, and certainly not when basic skills haven't been acquired yet.
Perhaps you should consider going on to divemaster and instructor yourself?

Thanks for your input. They enjoyed the night dive or so-called dive all we did is go down and sit on the platform 16', turned off the lights looked up out of the water at the moon.... DM or Instructor? well working my way there. I am in no hurry just enjoying diving. I had my dive buddy with me who is also a Rescue Diver. I was impressed on how their dives improved after our help. They are really enjoying diving and it has brought us closer as friends. Now, they are resistant to go diving by theirselves without me with them however, I was the same way when I started diving. With more dives and practice I am confident that they will be comfortable enough without me by their side. When I first started diving I went to Hawaii to dive and hired a Rescue Diver to come along with me because at that time my buddy and I more like me (lol) was not comfortable diving without having a more experienced diver with us...Yes, we had a DM leading the dive in Hawaii however, I wanted someone just for us..

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I will continue to work with my friends on their skills.

You can practice with your friends as an amatuer and that isn't a problem but if you set yourself up as some pseudo instructor and someone gets hurt I don't care if the guys you hang with aren't sue happy, their widows or parents may be.

So was the crowded class the best price in town?

 

[SteveDiver]

You can practice with your friends as an amatuer and that isn't a problem but if you set yourself up as some pseudo instructor and someone gets hurt I don't care if the guys you hang with aren't sue happy, their widows or parents may be.

So was the crowded class the best price in town?

No, it was actually expensive. I went with the same LDS but had a different Instructor that IMO was great... I am getting the impression that they the LDS is more worried about customer satisfaction then turning out a diver. It was a circus. No, I would never represent myself as a pseudo instructor. I will not allow my friends to get hurt either. I just cannot understand why this particular Instructor was careless and cramed all of the students in one class, loosing track of them, not showing 3 min safety stops, no underwater navigation and not doing a weight test etc. As an "Amatuer" I am perfectly capable of showing them the basics. The Instructor that I had was very strict and actually threw a student out of the class because he felt that they were not grasping the skills and would not make a safe diver. He is not used that much by the LDS anymore. I was told by the LDS that he is a strict Instructor and he has run some people off. IMO the stricter the better! so what, they have the attitude that everyone must pass regardless because they want to sell equipment etc...This is the impression that I received from the LDS...