Stupid mistakes....lucky,scared stiff

[divenut2001]

divenut2000: who's Bill?
hvulin: telling Bob to change his attitude or quit diving is uncalled for. His attitude seems fine to me. I don't see anything in his posts that would indicate he takes diving lightly or treats it as a game. I *gently* brought up the ego issue since it is an underlying factor in many of the misjudgements we all make.

Ooooops! Sorry Bob... The error has been corrected...

 

[divenut2001]

Hey FireMedic - don't blame you for getting a little touchy about that post. It was clear to me that you were thinking during this incident. As I said - it was your instructor that got me fired up. As an Instructor I know that fellow divers - not only students - assume that I won't put them in jeapardy. So it is natural that if your instructor made it seem perfectly alright that you would not question it. So now we all know that Instructors aren't Gods and that they do stupid things that others follow. I have no doubt that in the future you will question and not play "follow the leader." Glad you found a new instructor. And you really should consider reporting that instructor to his agency.

I think we "all" trusted our OWI's and DM's "completely" just as Bob did, when we were first certified. Only thru experience (good and bad) do we start looking at them a little closer and feel confident in questioning their judgement...JMHO

 

[terri]

Love reading your posts Uncle Pug, you are truly "The voice of reason".
I totally agree with you. Bob's attitude seems to be one of a potentially good diver who has learned a lesson that may save his life or the life of an another in the future.
The mere fact that he posted conveys the 'thought' that he put into that particular experience and the risk that he took for being patronized because of it. Mistakes we make are not always easy to talk about.
Constructive criticism should be welcomed by all in the dive community, we are all 'buddies' and should look out for eachother, in or out of the water.
To be told to quit diving is unheard of in a case such as this.
Hvulin's attitude concerns me more, as an arrogant diver is a dangerous buddy.
I am currently in instuctor training, and feel my training also extends outside the classroom by listening to diver's experiences and reading these posts. Experiences such as Bob's, advice from veteran divers, etc... will only make me a better instructor.
I am sure Bob appreciates your being there.

divenut2000: who's Bill?
hvulin: telling Bob to change his attitude or quit diving is uncalled for. His attitude seems fine to me. I don't see anything in his posts that would indicate he takes diving lightly or treats it as a game. I *gently* brought up the ego issue since it is an underlying factor in many of the misjudgements we all make.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Depth was in the 70' range. Sorry I didnt post that earlier.

It's good to hear that you've changed instructors. The fact that you're instructor wasn't around to help bothers me considerably. Monitoring divers is why instructors and their loyal minions get paid the big bucks.

As for the depth, that's still deep enough for narcosis, especially with a CO2 retention problem.

When I was a relatively new diver, I dove with a very experienced buddy on one of my first boat dives. We dropped to about 80 feet. I was not comfortable and seriously hoovered my gas (Nitrox 32, for which I was certified). In retrospect, I had the classic "dark narc" symptoms. Unfortunately, they didn't go away when we ascended to a plateau at 40 fsw. I was absolutely convinced that I was going to die if I didn't get out of the water. I was concerned because I didn't see the upline. I was convinced that my buddy didn't understand that I wanted to surface. All of these symptoms abated abruptly at 30 fsw, when I saw the upline (it had been behind me) and I got control over my breathing.

The point is that you can get seriously messed up on CO2 at shallow depths.

 

[hvulin]

Well, I'm sorry if I insulted someone but I wouldn't like to dive with a person who "doesn't quit well". Thinking about other peoples feelings instead of his life is another thing to change or he WILL become a number... - that's the part about attitude I was thinking about (should have said it clearly in my original post)

as for my attitude (about diving) all recomendations are welcome...

once more, sorry if I upset you or anyone else...

 

[Sideband]

Second - Where was your instructor this whole time? Your brother was not a qualified substitute for a buddy if this dive was under an instructor's supervision - Even if it was only an "elective" dive

Why would the brother not be an acceptable buddy? If there were 2 people in the class then he would be paired with someone potentially less qualified than his brother. He is after all just a buddy. I don't know of any OW or AOW dives that require an instructor as a dive buddy. The instructor should have been more present though.

Joe

 

[randyjoy]

So AOW electives can provide credit toward nitrox, but nitrox does not in itself qualify as one of the three electives.

Through PADI, nitrox is now an elective Adventure Dive (added this year - 2004). The diver must do a pre-dive practical exercise and briefing. The Instructor must be an EAN instructor also.

 

[ReneeC]

Why would the brother not be an acceptable buddy? If there were 2 people in the class then he would be paired with someone potentially less qualified than his brother. He is after all just a buddy. I don't know of any OW or AOW dives that require an instructor as a dive buddy. The instructor should have been more present though.

Joe

If the instructor was introducing a new skill he/she must be present with the student. Even if the brother was certified in Nitrox he is not qualified to buddy a student if the instructor is not in the immediate vicinity. In this scenerio where the individual was not certified in Nitrox a buddy is not just a buddy but needs to be qualified to accompany a student.

 

[Sideband]

If the instructor was introducing a new skill he/she must be present with the student. Even if the brother was certified in Nitrox he is not qualified to buddy a student if the instructor is not in the immediate vicinity. In this scenerio where the individual was not certified in Nitrox a buddy is not just a buddy but needs to be qualified to accompany a student.

I disagree that this applies to Nitrox. There may have been a lack of classroom time on the topic, but I know of no requirement to have an instructor or equivilant as a buddy for a nitrox dive. I am Nitrox certified and did not even have a required dive, so my first, and all subsiquent nitrox dives, have been sans instructor. Of the several dozen people that I was around when they did their first Nitrox dives, I don't know of any that had an instructor in the water with them. What would be the point? In the water all you do is breath.
All of the work is done on land. On land is where you tested the mix, figured the MOD and planned your dive. You are already a certified diver and should have the basic skills at least to a level of competence. If not, then your problems aren't going to be with the EANx and you should not be on the dive anyway.
I'm not saying the instructor shouldn't have been in the water with them, depending on what the conditions were and how new of an experience this was, but he wasn't required for the Nitrox, and as long as his brother was either in the class or already certified for the dive they were about to do, he was a qualified buddy for the dive.

Joe

 

[chrisch]

I did my PADI Nitrox many years ago in a quarry. The instructor stood at the side of the water in normal clothes and never got wet nor did she have any SCUBA kit with her. PADI require the student to be "supervised". We were that.

The TDI Nitrox course requires no dives.

I tend to agree with Sideband.

Chris

Edit - Afterthought - this guy did well and I think shows intelligence. The EAN aspect is not the issue. Pleased you're OK and keep up the diving!!