Suunto And Bare: A Major Disappointment

[Jorbar1551]

should'nt this post be in the whine and cheese section anyway?

 

[Drewski]

OK Cummings66, I appreciate your response and, in fairness, I respect that you are committed to safety and I would NEVER argue that point with you. BUT, let's go line-by-line with what you said.

First, you start out by saying:

Would you rather we wait until he has an accident and posts there saying he can no longer dive because his flaky computer told him to do x and it was wrong?

Where in his post did he SAY that he followed what his "flaky" computer was telling him? In FACT, what he DID say was that he was "forced to do an emergency decompression stop while doing a mid-dive RDP check." One can argue with terms and procedures in this case but, CLEARLY, he instituted an emergency plan that was DIFFERENT then what his computer told him to do.

Then you said:

In this case, it is clearly unsafe to be diving with and relying on a computer that goes belly up all the time. The very first time it did that should have been the last time, that is a safety problem and should be addressed for future reference. You do not cut slack when safety is at issue.

100% agree! BUT, where in his post did he say that he was continuing to dive with a faulty computer AFTER he identified a problem? His only reference to this was that it would "reset" itself at "all times" including "in the middle of dives," but you DON'T KNOW if this was one dive, two dives or more. You also DON'T KNOW what other "back up" stuff he used, including GASP TABLES, because he didn't go into that detail.

You followed this by noting:

In other words, if he dies and you did nothing to stop him you are responsible for it. So, I informed him that his lax attitude towards diving and computers needs a revamping. Can you honestly say that what he did was and is safe? Do you teach your students it's fine to dive with gear that's not reliable. I bet not. Hopefully when you see a diver doing something dangerous you take the time to explain it to them.

First, how do you figure anyone on this board is "responsible" for someone else's safety during diving? In FACT, everyone here is responsible for their OWN safety. What we give here is ADVICE and it's only OPINION. Nothing less, nothing more. You were NOT with him when he was diving and unless, based on your "responsible" attitude, you have booked a flight to the Philippines to speak with him personally, I'd say that YOU are NOT responsible either. And YES, safety is a BIG issue for the more than 700 STUDENTS I certified, while they were MY students. I don't go on "safety patrol" when recreational diving because I'm NOT in the instructional role at that point. Sure, I'll offer advice when I see something BAD directly, but you CAN'T draw a conclusion in this case based on the very LITTLE information you have.

Finally, you concluded by saying:

I am not saying he's not a good diver, you can be a good diver and yet dangerous. I know pilots like that. They have excellent skills but make poor decisions. That's what I see here, the problem he had with his dive computer is the tip of the iceberg, what's below can surely sink your ship.

Really? You are "not" saying he's "not" a good diver? A couple of sentences later, didn't you say "the problem he had with his dive computer is the tip of the iceburg?" Maybe your syntax use is confusing me, but that comment about "tip of the iceburg" sure sounds like a "conclusion" on your part to me. "Judge" and "jury" style.

My point to all of this isn't to argue with the issue of safety, procedures or what to rely on when things go BAD. Instead, my issue is the way people are TREATED here. For some reason, a significant number of posters on this board seem to enjoy picking apart member's posts, "analyzing" issues to the nth degree and THEN, as in this case draw the worst possible conclusions based on scanty information. Such a practice shows bias, unprofessionalism and is just plain UNFAIR.

This guy probably hasn't responded because he's actually OUT DIVING! You know, HIS JOB! Again, I'll go back to what I said before. STICK to the issue! If you see something you have concern with, PM the guy. Don't drag what you "think" to be an issue out in the open and then help a bunch of others to stamp all over it. The only thing that does is hurt people, especially when they are only looking for help.

Simply put, it's not FUN and it doesn’t "help" anyone.

Bring it if you need to, I'm ALL ears...

 

[drew52]

Not too sure about this experience but I know my wife has had this same problem with 2 mosquitos both of which have been replaced by suunto free of charge. And the shop where I worked previously had a number of their customers suunto's replaced no problem.

Personally I not a suunto fan as they seem to have a lot of problems but in my experience they usually replace or fix faulty computers free of charge with no questions asked.

 

[RonFrank]

When it works it's a reliable computer (although a bit too conservative), but a real pain when it does not. One would think for the money we pay for these things, that they would be a bit more trouble free!

I find this statement funny!

When X product works it's reliable, but a real pain when it does not. Is that not true of ANY product?

My definition of reliable does not extend to a product where there are known problems that many consumers report.

I choose my gear based on others experiences and reported problems, and maybe more importantly factors like service, where it's made, and manufacture policies.

I feel no need to consider a dive computer made outside of the USA when Aeris, and Oceanic both make great products at a reasonable price, and we have an Oceanic rep on this board standing up for his company. I feel the same way about Zeagle. It's a comfort for me to know I can call and talk to the guy who has his name on my Reg and BC.

I am passively boycotting manufactures that don't allow onlines sales even from authorized dealers.(Suunto, Scubapro to name two). This type of hardline, no compete policy needs to end.

 

[Cacia]

I feel no need to consider a dive computer made outside of the USA when Aeris, and Oceanic both make great products at a reasonable price,

those of us that are Suunto fans like the way they double as a watch and we wear them all the time. I use my stopwatch, alarm, etc...and it is smaller that the computers you favor. Otherwise, I would.

But...this is one reason why DM's and Instructors wear them, IMO. They live in them.

Plus, they are small enough we can slip them past the DIR guys and say they are in gauge mode....low profile and all.

 

[subtle69]

Some interesting responses. Thanks to those who were able to see the point of the thread. For those who questioned my professional credentials, anyone who can handle the RDP should be able to do the math. I am 31 and yes I did my AOW whenever smarty pants post researcher said I did.

The point of the post was to share with other avid divers, a group who are more equipment and brand conscious than virtually any other sport, a story that is so pathetic it can only be true. It is now November 1st and I have heard nothing despite having sent two further emails.

Yes, I want Bare and Suunto to be exposed for their incompetency. Yet, I also want people making what may be a significant purchase, to be wary of what may lie ahead for them should they not be privy to the experiences of others.

 

[subtle69]

Just had to reread the posts. Thanks Drewski, for your sanity. I appreciated the comment that 'I am actually diving instead of just talking about it' most. Having been doing that for quite some time now, I had forgotten how petty a lot of the 'divers' who 'frequent' this site can be. For the charlatans slumped over their desktop computers reading this vindictively, I would like to extend a palm leaf and an invitation: Have been doing some exploratory diving for a local operator while sleeping in a tent on the Sulu Sea in Eastern Sabah (Borneo) approximately 35 kms north of Sipadan. Get off your ergonomic rolling chair, lube yourself up with baby oil and squeeze into that 3mm with the split in the ***. With a signed medical and anything but a Sunnto, you can join me. I promise.

 

[shugar]

I would like to share an ongoing experience through which I continue to suffer with Suunto and their Canadian distributors, Bare. May it serve as a warning for all of those considering having their computers repaired or serviced by either company. Please read on.

The saga began some months ago when my 3 year old Suunto Mosquito began to reset itself at all hours of the day, including in the middle of dives. All of my profile information would disappear and I would be forced to do an emergency decompression stop while doing a mid-dive RDP check. A little worried about my safety and after speaking to several other instructors, I learned I was not the only person having this issue with their Suuntos. Having heard great reviews of Suunto's Customer Service Dept., and that they repaired the faulty units free of charge, I sent my computer off to Bare, after being advised to do so by Suunto. This was August 8th.

Two weeks later, having not heard from either company, I phoned Bare and was told that my unit was now in Finland and that they would contact me when they knew what the problem was. One week later, I received a short, terse email informing me that I would have to pay $245 as the computer needed a new module. I was neither asked if I wanted the repairs completed or if I wanted the unit returned to me as is prior to the modules installation. In addition, I was also told without being advised in advance that I would have to pay an additional $45 to have the Mosquito returned to me.

After emailing my disbelief at not being consulted in anyway about the repair job and the expense to be incurred, I received neither a phone call or an email from the company for two weeks. After 6 emails from me, a new Customer Service rep. appeared from the woodwork and informed me that somehow my emails had disappeared into the ether: there was no apology. It is now the end of September, 6 weeks since the fiasco began.

A day or two later I was asked for my credit card number which I provided immediately along with the CVC code on the back. Four days later, I was asked again for my CVC code. I sent 4 emails with my CVC code. A week later, I was told that the CVC code had been received and that the package would be sent at my own expense, after two months, to my address in the Philippines.

Today is October 30th and I still do not have my computer. My request to have the Mosquito couriered to me at my own expense was ignored. I have been without one of the most important tools of my trade for almost 3 months! They claim they do not know where my computer is!

I have contacted Suunto in Finland several times along with Bare in Canada and have encountered nobody who will accept blame, make amends or explain why exactly all of this transpired. The incompetency I encountered at management level in both companies is staggering.

As a teaching-status and active PADI MSDT with 19 years of experience, I have never come across such complete disregard for professional courtesy, and certainly not such poor customer service. Once a firm supporter of Suunto, one who sold many a Suunto product by my recommendation alone, I feel a little betrayed and very angry.

BEBARE!

if you're in the philippines why didn't you send it to scubaworld? they're the local distributor for suunto - friend of mine sent an aged solution nitrox to them and got it back in less than a month looking like new

other than that sorry to hear of your experience...

Jag

 

[RonFrank]

those of us that are Suunto fans like the way they double as a watch and we wear them all the time. I use my stopwatch, alarm, etc...and it is smaller that the computers you favor. Otherwise, I would.

But...this is one reason why DM's and Instructors wear them, IMO. They live in them.

Plus, they are small enough we can slip them past the DIR guys and say they are in gauge mode....low profile and all.

Oceanic makes the Atom that is an AI hoseless watch style computer.

My day to day watch is a Citizen Aquamaster Titanium model. While it does not do the NDL thing, it is a nice watch, and a very good backup to my dive computer.

FYI, Suunto is owned by Amer sports. They also own Salomon (ski), Mavic (bikes), Wilson (sports) Atomic (skis+) and a number of other manufactures.

I have no issue with them (rather finland vs. China!) but I don't like their dealer policies, and they seem to have some issues (the VERY expensive D1 was not without issue), and I see more complaints on their products vs. other computers even if I have friends that love them.

 

[Drewski]

Thanks Drewski, for your sanity. I appreciated the comment that 'I am actually diving instead of just talking about it' most. Having been doing that for quite some time now, I had forgotten how petty a lot of the 'divers' who 'frequent' this site can be.

Thanks, brother and keep the faith. I'm planning to get out your way in the next couple years, maybe we can get up for a dive and a beer.

BTW, I use the DiveRite NiTekDuo and found it very easy to work with. It also offers the user the ability to define two mixes and switch between them while diving. FYI

Best of luck...