Suunto Vyper or Cressi Giotto?

[Carib_Diver]

Hi All,

I am a fairly novice diver. I am basic and advanced open water certified and have done about 21 dives (all on air). I am looking to purchase a dive computer. Some of the primary functions I am looking at: ascent rate indicator (I know that all watches have this feature, I'm looking for a good one that people like), deep stop functionality, and conservatism. I am not looking to dive mixed gases anytime soon, but maybe in the distant future.

I have read a ton of articles and reviews on dive computers so far. I have narrowed my choices down to the Suunto Vyper and the Cressi Giotto.
Suunto vyper: I really like the ability to change the sampling rate on this one. Also it has a gauge mode. Suunto has been around forever and seems to have a great reputation and is time tested.
Cressi Giotto: I really like the deep stop option. I'm still not sure if the Suunto Vyper has one. Does anyone know? I couldn't find it in the Suunto vyper manual. The cons of the Giotto from what I have read so far is an extremely sensitive ascent rate beeper. Some say it is overly conservative. Lastly, it doesn't seem to have the same track record as Suunto, unless I'm mistaken.

My preference for the deep stop features is based on some research I did, such as this DAN report: https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/default.aspx?a=news&id=514

Any advice would be much appreciated!

 

[Tbar]

Hi Welcome

What you linked is quite old, original article is stated as from Alert Diver May/June 2004 and not representing current thoughts about the subject.

Did you follow the "more relevant information" link Alert Diver | Deep Stops

I dive with a Mares Puck and it has Deep Stop. I often dive near the NDL and only have seen the Deep Stop advised once. For me this would not be a consideration for a computer, but rather as staed in the latest article, dive the proven algorithm in the computer.

I am not sure why you would want to change the sampling rates?

Most computers will provide some options to add conservative factors and give you options to turn-off beeps.

When you say "dive mixed gases" are you referring to Nitrox? For me Nitrox is one of the best steps for a diver it will give you a level additional NDL and hence reduce the need for conservatism and say deep stops.

I am not keen on the Suunto interface, they have taken the worst of the single button and added to multi button, the mode button and short and long presses and the Plan and Time buttons change their function, lots to remember. Sure the single button computer can take a number of presses but only one button to consider...

Why haven't you included the Mares Puck Pro? Given that the Viper is not a 'watch' size.

 

[Carib_Diver]

Tbar, thanks for the post. I reviewed the latest article you pointed out to me. Most of the commenters did not see a need for a deep stop when doing NDLs. However, one commenter in that study noted that "The research on the deep stop is, in fact, more extensive and is based also on actual recreational dives. The deep stop at half the depth for 2.5 minutes significantly reduces not only bubbles, but also the critical gas supersaturation in the "fast" tissue compartments (like the spinal cord's 13.5 minutes) without increasing the "slow" compartments usually related to limb pain." - So in essence, even if I have not exceeded my NDL time limit, I still think a deep stop at half the depth will be useful.

- While the article says to dive using your watch's algorithm, since different watches have different bottom times, I would want the most conservative one.

- With regards to the sampling rate - I wanted higher sampling rate for greater accuracy when it recalculates.E.g. the Suunto Zoop samples at 30s, the Vyper can be adjusted to sample at 20 or 10 seconds.

- When I said mixed gas, I meant Nitrox. I might do that at some point.

- I thought about the Mares Puck Pro. I just didn't have enough data for comparison. Is there a specific reason for the Puck Pro? I am ok with having three buttons. Thanks

 

[uncfnp]

If I am only given those two options I would choose the Giotto, in fact I own one, simply because it is cheaper. Both are considered conservative computers and run on variations of the RGBM algothmn.

Edit: Just saw Leisurepro has a Vyper for 279 with cable. Looks like a good price. Isn't the Vyper discontinued?

 

[Tbar]

Tbar, thanks for the post. I reviewed the latest article you pointed out to me. Most of the commenters did not see a need for a deep stop when doing NDLs. However, one commenter in that study noted that "The research on the deep stop is, in fact, more extensive and is based also on actual recreational dives. The deep stop at half the depth for 2.5 minutes significantly reduces not only bubbles, but also the critical gas supersaturation in the "fast" tissue compartments (like the spinal cord's 13.5 minutes) without increasing the "slow" compartments usually related to limb pain." - So in essence, even if I have not exceeded my NDL time limit, I still think a deep stop at half the depth will be useful.

One commercial operator I have dived with, where we did 4 repetitive dives in the 30-40 metre range was structured to have a 2minute stop at 10metres and then the 3minute safety stop at 3-6metres. But in general I do not do a deep stop and my Mares Puck computer, that has that capability, does not propose a stop. So even if the computer has the function it may not be used.

- While the article says to dive using your watch's algorithm, since different watches have different bottom times, I would want the most conservative one.

Most will allow you to a conservative factors. This whole 'which is the most conservative computer' question is complex. Some computers will be more conservative on a single dive profile, while others will become more conservative based on the repetitive dive profiles. Some are impacted by missing the safety stop, others aren't. Some are impacted more by surface interval...

- With regards to the sampling rate - I wanted higher sampling rate for greater accuracy when it recalculates.E.g. the Suunto Zoop samples at 30s, the Vyper can be adjusted to sample at 20 or 10 seconds.

If you are doing a 'normal' dive and not dramatically and rapidly varying your depth then the sampling will not have a material impact. Sampling at a higher rate may impact on storage and battery life.

- When I said mixed gas, I meant Nitrox. I might do that at some point.

Do this and dive Nitrox on those 18-30 metre dives and stay reasonably inside your NDL and that will give you greater conservative than the options above.

- I thought about the Mares Puck Pro. I just didn't have enough data for comparison. Is there a specific reason for the Puck Pro? I am ok with having three buttons. Thanks

It seem to meet your requirements, it is seen as somewhat conservative, offers deep stop, from my perspective (and those that I know have Puck and Puck Pro) is easy to use, can add conservative factors, similar price, user replaceable battery, Nitrox to 40%, good track record, I have 7 Pucks and they are all going well. Gives assent rate graphical and beeps.

Edit - added...

I have bought Mares Pucks from an eBay guy in Germany Mares Puck Tauchcomputer Diving Computer TC | eBay. He also has Puck Pro Mares Puck Pro White Tauchcomputer Weiß Armcomputer Dive Computer | eBay

I think you can get the Puck cheaper at Leasurepro Mares Puck Wrist Computer 414117 to me it is a bargain at $149.

 

[Carib_Diver]

Thanks uncfnp. The cheap price for the Vyper (which seems to be going for $445 on most other sites) was another reason I was leaning towards it. It's not discontinued (still on the Suunto site). I'm wondering whether Leisure Pro is selling an older model or whether it's a closeout.

If I am only given those two options I would choose the Giotto, in fact I own one, simply because it is cheaper. Both are considered conservative computers and run on variations of the RGBM algothmn.

Edit: Just saw Leisurepro has a Vyper for 279 with cable. Looks like a good price. Isn't the Vyper discontinued?

---------- Post added December 18th, 2015 at 12:19 AM ----------

Thanks Tbar. I really like the Mares Smart also in terms of design and price point. Do you have any opinions about that one? Also, as I mentioned above, the Suunto Vyper is going for $279 on Leisure pro. I would like to get as much bang for the buck computer as possible.

---------- Post added December 18th, 2015 at 12:21 AM ----------

Thanks Tbar. I really like the Mares Smart also in terms of design and price point. Do you have any opinions about that one? Also, as I mentioned above, the Suunto Vyper is going for $279 on Leisure pro. I would like to get as much bang for the buck computer as possible.

One commercial operator I have dived with, where we did 4 repetitive dives in the 30-40 metre range was structured to have a 2minute stop at 10metres and then the 3minute safety stop at 3-6metres. But in general I do not do a deep stop and my Mares Puck computer, that has that capability, does not propose a stop. So even if the computer has the function it may not be used.

Most will allow you to a conservative factors. This whole 'which is the most conservative computer' question is complex. Some computers will be more conservative on a single dive profile, while others will become more conservative based on the repetitive dive profiles. Some are impacted by missing the safety stop, others aren't. Some are impacted more by surface interval...

If you are doing a 'normal' dive and not dramatically and rapidly varying your depth then the sampling will not have a material impact. Sampling at a higher rate may impact on storage and battery life.

Do this and dive Nitrox on those 18-30 metre dives and stay reasonably inside your NDL and that will give you greater conservative than the options above.

It seem to meet your requirements, it is seen as somewhat conservative, offers deep stop, from my perspective (and those that I know have Puck and Puck Pro) is easy to use, can add conservative factors, similar price, user replaceable battery, Nitrox to 40%, good track record, I have 7 Pucks and they are all going well. Gives assent rate graphical and beeps.

Edit - added...

I have bought Mares Pucks from an eBay guy in Germany Mares Puck Tauchcomputer Diving Computer TC | eBay. He also has Puck Pro Mares Puck Pro White Tauchcomputer Weiß Armcomputer Dive Computer | eBay

I think you can get the Puck cheaper at Leasurepro Mares Puck Wrist Computer 414117 to me it is a bargain at $149.

 

[Tbar]

I would like to get as much bang for the buck computer as possible.

I possible look at it differently, as lower cost as I can to meet my needs.

With the Mares Puck at $149, and it seeming to do all the things you wanted I am not sure what more bang you may need for your buck? But I would say the Puck does not have a 'bling' factor. The Pro and possibly the others allow Nitrox over 40% up to 99% and gas switching during the dive - but I don't expect you will taking advantage of those features for some time and then would need a bit more gear... You are also not looking at Air Integration.

I am not trying to be picky but there is always a 'better' model at a higher cost but unless it has a feature you expect to use at some time then it is of not better value. Style is another driver, if you want a smaller, ware all the time model then that is a feature. For me my computer is for recreational diving and I need a larger display for my older eyes. I generally dive repetitive dives so have two Pucks, with the back-up I expect not to miss a dive and at the cost the back-up isn't much more than the cost of a dive.

Sorry I can't comment on the Mares Smart. I do try to only comment from direct experience.

 

[buddhasummer]

If I am only given those two options I would choose the Giotto, in fact I own one, simply because it is cheaper. Both are considered conservative computers and run on variations of the RGBM algothmn.

Edit: Just saw Leisurepro has a Vyper for 279 with cable. Looks like a good price. Isn't the Vyper discontinued?

No, it's still in production and on Suuntos web site. I think the Zoop is being discontued though, can't remember where I read that though.

 

[dmaziuk]

- With regards to the sampling rate - I wanted higher sampling rate for greater accuracy when it recalculates.E.g. the Suunto Zoop samples at 30s, the Vyper can be adjusted to sample at 20 or 10 seconds.

So you breathe in and go 2 feet up for 20 seconds, then you breathe out and go 2 feet down for 20 seconds, are you sure you want your NDL recalculated 4 times during a single breath cycle? Taking into account that the fastest tissue compartment in the model is 4 minutes? Google for Nyquist-Shannon law.

 

[Carib_Diver]

So you breathe in and go 2 feet up for 20 seconds, then you breathe out and go 2 feet down for 20 seconds, are you sure you want your NDL recalculated 4 times during a single breath cycle? Taking into account that the fastest tissue compartment in the model is 4 minutes? Google for Nyquist-Shannon law.

dmaziuk - not sure about the science but I'll take your word for it. I think the sample size gives you a better idea of your dive profile when you download it (from what I've read). Do you have any recommendations for dive computers?