Swimming Assessment

[Togalive]

Well, it may not be for a basic scuba diver, but at least for DiveMasters there are some decent swim tests:
- 400 yards standard swimming, 5/5 points means you do it in 6 mins. 9 minutes is 2 points.
- 800 yards swimming with fins, 10-11 mins is 5/5 points and so on
- 15 mins tread water, last two minutes with hands out of the water
- (this is the easiest part) a 50ft swim underwater on a breath.

While I do not think divers have to be a technically sufficient swimmer, I DO believe that ALL divers should be strong swimmers. This means that while I could care less about if they are doing one type of swimming over another, so long as they can swim a half mile to a mile just fine, and keep afloat for an extended period of time I am happy. I do not think having divers who can barely swim is a good idea, but a butterfly and a frog kick are all the same to me when the stuff hits the fan.

For example, I am by no means a fast swimmer when I dont have fins on. However, I am completely confident in my abilities if it came down to swimming distance or keeping afloat for an extended period of time. As in all matters of survival, speed is what kills.

 

[jaycanwk]

I am a swimming Instructor. I do agree with TSandM and others that you don't have to be Micheal Phelps to be a diver. The standards for scuba are being able to tread water for a period of time and complete the endurance swim, which by the way does not specify which stroke you have to use or how good the technique of that stroke needs to be, only that you demonstrate good endurance and i would say that that is adequate for diving.
That said, the better your stroke technique is the better your hydrodynamics are and the better your endurance will be.

 

[boulderjohn]

When I asked the instructor how he evaluated their ability, he looked puzzled for a few seconds then stated: "I don't really know, I guess, I just sort of watch them and kinda know..."

Well, I would say that you have met a totally incompetent instructor. All of the major agencies specify what students need to be able to do in terms of swimming in order to achieve certification. If an instructor does not know what his or her agency's standards are, then you have an instructor who is really out of touch.

I will stand corrected if someone tells me something different about NAUI. I believe that instructors in NAUI are allowed to make a judgment call after a short period of swimming, but I could be wrong. I personally would prefer that. When I see a class of students enter the water and begin swimming with skill and confidence, I would really like to call off the exercise and start teaching scuba rather than waste a long period of time watching them complete the required number of laps.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well, I would say that you have met a totally incompetent instructor. All of the major agencies specify what students need to be able to do in terms of swimming in order to achieve certification. If an instructor does not know what his or her agency's standards are, then you have an instructor who is really out of touch.

I will stand corrected if someone tells me something different about NAUI. I believe that instructors in NAUI are allowed to make a judgment call after a short period of swimming, but I could be wrong. I personally would prefer that. When I see a class of students enter the water and begin swimming with skill and confidence, I would really like to call off the exercise and start teaching scuba rather than waste a long period of time watching them complete the required number of laps.

That was the concept that I wrote into NAUI's standards, when the contracted me to rewrite them. My reasoning was exactly what you expressed above, pool time is expensive and why waste it testing what you have already learned?

 

[Lead_carrier]

snip....

2. They must swim 50 feet underwater on one breath with no push off.

I'm not trying to start anything with this question, but why this skill? I know its a requirement but I still don't understand it and the only answers I ever got never satisfied me.

 

[Thalassamania]

Most of the pool test skills find their origins in things that were done in open water that were later altered for use in the pool, for example, there is a test where the student needs to swim two lengths underwater on no more than three breaths. This was designed as a simulation for going through a California beach break.

 

[diverchick1234]

As both a diver and a former WSI and LGI, I would say a comfortable in the water level 2 is all that is needed for SCUBA. I have seen people who swam at a level 3+ but were clearly uncomfortable in the water as a LGI (guess all they wanted was a job in the summer sun). These people were so uncomfortable in the water, I would not want them as a dive buddy (and yes they did pass the LG course since they could meet the requirments). My fear would be that something would go wrong and then I would have an emergency and a panicy buddy. On the other hand, saw people who while not a "level 3" swimmer, was very comfortable in the water, could do very basic "ugly" strokes (but they got the job done) that I would be fine with as a dive buddy - in fact I do dive with some of these people. Give me someone with a lower skill level but more sure of themselves in the water than the best tech. swimmer that is uncomfortable in the water anyday.

 

[FireInMyBones]

As an ARC WSI for ~10yrs and a recent WSIT, I say that anyone going near water should have to pass level 2 and to do anything in water should pass level 3. The skills are not that hard for the vast majority of people. Most of it is learning the best way to swim and stay safe in and around the water. Rarely is it unlearning bad habbits. When it is, it reenforces my view stated above.

As a DMC and someone who would like to become and scuba instructor, I believe that good overall fitness and inwater ability is important. Breathing while swimming is very different from breathing while running. It takes better control and is more difficult due to the hydrostatic pressure on the lungs and chest cavity. The better you are at swimming, the closer you are to being a better diver.

All of this is not to say that all good swimmers are good divers, but wouldn't it be nice if all good divers were good swimmers?

As both a diver and a former WSI and LGI, I would say a comfortable in the water level 2 is all that is needed for SCUBA. I have seen people who swam at a level 3+ but were clearly uncomfortable in the water as a LGI (guess all they wanted was a job in the summer sun).

I too have taught LG classes as an LGI. It is true, not all good swimmers make good lifeguards, but if you want to be a good lifeguard, you had better be able to swim well (especially while towing someone else along).

 

[rx7diver]

So with the limited information provided, what approximate skill level do you believe a student should achieve before attempting scuba certification?

Now I might wish to change my question to: Have any of you ever taken a swim lesson before and how would you perceive its value in the scuba world?

Ru4skuba,

Here is a recent thread you might find interesting: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/383436-swimming-abilities.html.

I am one of those who believes a scuba diver ought to be a competent, though not necessarily a technically perfect, swimmer.

I grew up spending a lot of time in and around swimming pools and small lakes (one of the perks of being an Army brat to a career soldier and having various military bases as big playgrounds). However, I never learned to swim until quite late. My college had a swimming requirement, and last term senior year I asked one of my close friends (who happened to be on the varsity swim team) to teach me. I learned well enough in those ten weeks to pass (an un-timed 200 yard crawl, followed by 15 minutes treading water), which allowed me to graduate on time! I was hardly a competent swimmer, though. Hardly even marginal, in fact!

Years later while a doctoral student I thought to take the university scuba course. The scuba instructor (he was also the swimming-for-conditioning coach and the former intercollegiate swim coach) watched me swim a lap and, convinced I wasn't going to immediately drown myself, allowed me to take the course.

The course had some pretty tough (to me) swimming requirements—it was a PE course—so all the students, even the marginal swimmers like myself, were expected to eventually become competent swimmers. I wrote about some of these requirements in the thread I referenced and elsewhere on SB.

Anyway, my point in writing this is to say, I personally don't believe one needs be a competent swimmer to *begin* training in scuba. One just needs to understand that there is an expectation of swimming competence before venturing out to scuba dive.

Safe Diving,

Ronald

P.S. I swim (American crawl) laps routinely now, ever since I began scuba, although I never really have enjoyed swimming. I consider swimming laps a price of admission, and just do it. Of course, swimming is much easier for me now (at 6'2" 230 lbs) than it was when I took my scuba course (at 185 lbs). I'm still not a natural floater, but I'm far from the absolute brick I was back then. I am a faster swimmer and am able to swim farther before tiring now, despite being in less than one-half the shape I was in back then—quite the paradox! However, my ten-year-old daughter, who has been taking weekly swimming lessons since age two, can absolutely trounce me!

 

[martinskarin]

My experiences is a little bit different.

I was a real late swimmer, due to that I always hated to be in the water, I just stayed on the beach playing, sometimes my mom forced me in the water just because if we where at the ocean I should be in it she thought

In Sweden we have (or at least had) mandatory swim school at around 3rd grade or so (10 years old) I think, for most this is enough to learn swimming, not for me, I had to take part on extra swim school to learn. Never really liked to be in the water.. After this I actually made some swimming and did some tests which I past to get some pins as proof of this. But I am still not a person who actually likes to stay in the water, my swimming is not comfortable and I struggle a bit too much, however I could easily complete the 200m and 10min swimming test in ocean with some pretty nice waves making things heavier for me. Should also add that I am a bony guy who do not float what so ever and need to work to stay afloat.

I still do not go swim in the water (pool, lake or ocean) if it is not a real special occation, only when putting the wakeboard on (always using life west ofc..) and when SCUBA diving, but I think my skills is absolutly enough, I swim slow, I struggle and I just hate doing it, but I can get to the ladder of the boat after getting out of my gear or if I should fall in the water I would survive well longer than needed to be picked up again. I got good words from my OW instructor ("You two guys are the top 5% percent, it is always fun to have some guys like you once in a while, you will be good SCUBA divers..") Being comfortable with breething under 25m of water has nothing with being a good surface swimmer to do, at least not for me.

So I think they PADI requirements (swim 200m in any way no time limi, tread water for 10mins) seems well enough.