Swimming Assessment

[SDAnderson]

Have any of you ever taken a swim lesson before and how would you perceive its value in the scuba world?

Former WSI, former LG, former competitive swimmer, current PADI/DSAT/SDI/TDI instructor.

Most of the swimming criteria you list don't translate well to scuba. I require students to be drown-proof and hopefully comfortable in the water, beyond that how well (as in polished technique) they swim is largely irrelevant, the modified flutter and modified frog kicks best suited for diving are anathema to surface swimmers. Trained swimmers are usually "Water Babies" but they aren't the only ones - most of the time I'd prefer an experienced pond swimmer who never took a lesson in my classes. People who take swim lessons NEVER learn "slow and relaxed;" speaking as someone who liked the butterfly, high-energy swimmers have a hard time learning to dial it back. Even when learning a low-energy stroke there is an emphasis on precision body mechanics, consistency, rhythm and - worst of all - moving arms that disrupts the Zen of being a good scuba diver.

Scuba is the lazy mans extreme sport. It's more important to "get" the idea of neutral buoyancy and just hanging in the water than it is to throw a big wake.

 

[Thalassamania]

A lot of folks here are missing the real point. The physical skill of swimming is not what is important, what is critical is the student's psychological adjustment to be in the water, in stressful situations. I have never come across a non-swimmer or a weak swimmer who could handle the kind of stresses that I fell a low risk diver must be able to handle. On the other end, I have rarely come across strong swimmers who were no better, but usually there is a pretty direct correlation between swimming comfort and skill and the ability to learn to dive well.

 

[SDAnderson]

The physical skill of swimming is not what is important, what is critical is the student's psychological adjustment to be in the water, in stressful situations. ...(U)sually there is a pretty direct correlation between swimming comfort and skill and the ability to learn to dive well.

Yeah, verily.

 

[FireInMyBones]

I've never seen a "drown-proof" person.
The psychological benefits are important, but I feel that the in water fitness is important.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Most of the pool test skills find their origins in things that were done in open water that were later altered for use in the pool, for example, there is a test where the student needs to swim two lengths underwater on no more than three breaths. This was designed as a simulation for going through a California beach break.

I should have know that Thal would come up with the reasoning behind it. If I was beach diving in California it would probably make a lot more sense. Guess I'll just keep my beach diving limited to Bonaire. Thanks Thal

 

[TMHeimer]

A lot of folks here are missing the real point. The physical skill of swimming is not what is important, what is critical is the student's psychological adjustment to be in the water, in stressful situations. I have never come across a non-swimmer or a weak swimmer who could handle the kind of stresses that I fell a low risk diver must be able to handle. On the other end, I have rarely come across strong swimmers who were no better, but usually there is a pretty direct correlation between swimming comfort and skill and the ability to learn to dive well.

Geez, I never thought a DM newbie like me would ever "semi" disagree with you. Being a dope, I'm not really sure what you mean. Regarding the physical skill of swimming not being important, I agree and disagree. It is very important to pass any kind of lap test, especially for DM. It is also obviously important to just be able to swim. And some OW candidates can't swim--amazing. I agree completely that "swimming" comfort (and general comfort in water) is almost a must in learning to dive well. You probably know my views on swimming as a skill AND a sport (as opposed to diving, which I don't consider a sport). If you can't swim well, why would you EVER consider diving despite the differences of the two? Swimming ability (especially timed) and comfortability in water don't always go together. I've been super comfortable for 50 years and was only a HS team swimmer for a brief time. But hey, my only thing published relates to clarinet playing.

 

[Belce]

One of the important unspoken tested items from the 300m swim is can you pace your effort to complete the swim.

 

[RU4SKUBA]

Very strange and slightly ironic that we'd spend thousands on technical or professional training, but can't take the time for a few swim lessons for an aquatic sport with some real inherent dangers to ourselves and our buddies. Gear fails and emergencies never happen in perfect conditions where water doesn't splash your face.

To those pushing for new agencies, early advancement into GUE Fundies courses, technical training, teaching rescue skills to inexperienced divers, and spending thousands on cool rig configurations...

Before you ask for open and full support in these endeavors, it might be wise to evaluate some simple ways to improve basic water safety and address some reasonable change in the current course structure before you start talking drastic agency-level changes.

I think requiring someone to swim better than a 6-7 year old isn't asking that much in an aquatic sport... but then again, I can swim better than a 6 year old so its easy for me to say.

Thanks for all the responses and enjoy the rest of the summer!

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Very strange and slightly ironic that we'd spend thousands on technical or professional training, but can't take the time for a few swim lessons for an aquatic sport with some real inherent dangers to ourselves and our buddies.

I don't know that most of the respondents in this thread were saying that people shouldn't (or that they themselves) wouldn't "take the time for a few swim lessons." To me your initial post seemed to suggest that good technical form swimming the front crawl was important, in order to avoid being a hazard in the water, and it was that to which I was responding. From my reading of the thread, a number of other respondents were thinking along the same lines.

From your thread-starting posts:

[Other items in assessment, followed by]
Front Crawl Arms with Flutter Kick and FULL RHYTHMIC BREATHING with no head lift or extra breaths for 15 meters.

With this assessment you should be able to pre-determine exactly where a student belongs and know everything you need to know about a swimmer's ability in about 5 minutes. If they can't put their face in the water, or head back, you know there's a problem... and head position is KING in the water. Without proper head position the swimmer is mediocre at-best and a liability in the water.

 

[Crowley]

I agree with Thalassamania to a point - it's immediately obvious when somebody starts swimming whether they can do it or not. I often hear of instructors banning kick-rolls during the OW or DM swim tests in a pool because it's "cheating" - sorry, but that's crap - if you can swim well enough to perform a kick roll, and it's good enough for the olympics, I do not care in the slightest if it shaves a couple of seconds off your DM swim tests - I'm already impressed.

Most people can't swim very well. It's slow and technically poor, but they can make the distance without drowning. My main concern is that they are comfortable in water - not because they may have a long swim back to shore after the boat capsizes, but because they are comfortable in water. I find it very difficult to imagine a situation where a diver, in any circumstance, gets into problems and ditches all their gear thinking "I don't need these fins or this mask or these indispensable buoyancy aids, I'm going to get rid of them and swim back to shore unaided"

I find the logic that "a diver needs to be able to swim because they might fall off the dock or boat" a poor excuse - because then we must never allow anybody onto a dock or boat or pier or sea front or beach who is not able to swim. What about all the people who ride river boats or glass bottomed boats or sit on the back of a rubber ring being towed by a speed boat. What about all those folks who ride passenger ferries or take water taxis up the Hudson or go for a romantic gondola ride with a man who has a silly hat and a long pole and a large ice cream in Venice, or a pedalo or rowing boat or canoe or kayak? Surely if we apply that logic then every person who ever gets on a boat, ever, must be able to demonstrate they can swim comfortably in case their vehicle sinks.

Just like the instructor in the OP's post - as soon as I see somebody in the water I *know* if they are comfortable or not. Are they competent swimmers? Well they must be able to meet the certification requirements or I cannot and will not teach them, but if it takes them 30 minutes to swim the 200 metres and they finish up relaxed and refreshed and happy then I'm not going to tell them they can't go diving. Better this than somebody who jumps into the water and exits 20 seconds later like a penguin with a rocket up its backside...!

Me personally - I'm not a great swimmer - I can do it, of course, but as a pastime I hate it. too much time at the surface, when where I really want to be is below it.

Safe diving / swimming all...

C.