T2 to do or not and recommendations on preparation

[beester]

Hi all,
I have the opportunity to take a T2 class spring 2016, but for the first time in my tech diving / GUE career I’m having 2^nd thoughts. To be totally honest the fact that my wife will take fundies in the next months is boosting my enthusiasm much more than the opportunity to take another class myself.
I understand that you won’t be able to give personal advice, because you don’t know me… however I do hope that some of you who have taken T2 can chime in and let me know how they experienced the course, what they liked about it and how they are using the things learned in practice. I’ve searched the internet but you won’t find many class reports or opinions on T2, strangely enough you find many more on C2.

A bit of background and why I’m feeling this. I’ve done fundies in 2010 after an incident diving North Sea wrecks (basically got stuck and only barely managed to get lose), fundies was me coping with this incident, basically improve my game and get into team diving or just quit diving. I didn’t want to start technical diving. Then on holiday in the Yucatan I did a cenote dive with my wife and knew I needed to do that. So C1 in beginning of 2013, T1 in May 2014 and C2 in Jan 2015.
All of these courses came at the right time. C1 because I wanted to start putting my head in caves. T1 because I wanted to get a GUE TX ticket, I already had a TX ticket from another agency, and a good many NS wreck dives under my belt, C2 because I started to push the limits of C1 (diving stages, going quite far in which is possible in France which is mostly mainline), so C2 after about 50 cave dives post C1.

With T2 I’m not sure. First of all I wasn’t planning it, but 5 divers in my community will take the course next year and there is a spot free for me. They really want me to join, and a part of me wants that too… I’m already diving in caves using multiple stages (3-4) and doing deco/runtimes which are definitely outside the T1 limits. So from that point of view it’s good experience. Next it’s a good opportunity to finally take a class with friends. All my other classes were with people I didn’t know before, they were incredible experiences, and I made good friends but still local community is local community. If I don’t take this ticket it will be another 3-4 years before I see anybody else take T2.

On the other side, where I dive are no caves or deep wrecks. North Sea is not that far (1,5 hour drive) and I know a lot of charter captains, but max depth is 50m and most dives are 30-45m. I visit caves quite regularly and all in all about 30-40 dives a year I do are tech dives (or overhead, or deco with stages or both).

SO… I’m hitting a bit of a philosophical wall… What’s the use… If I want to keep very current on T2 level I need to move to a place where I can jump out of bed and do deep TX dives, or live next to a cave. C1 makes sense, T1 as well, C2 even too… because the limits in C1 are quite high, and you need the experience and course of C2 to do proper overhead dives. But T2… Not sure.

Thanks for your opinion.

Sincerely!

 

[CptTightPants21]

Not sure if you have any of these links on T2.

Cold Water Kitty: Tech 2, Part 1

My Life As A Scuba Instructor: Manado 2012 GUE Tech 2 report

Given your steady GUE progression, I think its only a matter of time before you take a T2 class and it sounds like you have a nice opportunity to take one with friends you dive with. You are actively diving, so even if you don't do a load of T2 level dives each year you are still executing dives with a high degree of skill and keeping your edge. In terms of keeping the T2 rating---25 dives 3 years, you might be surprised how many T2 dives you start doing once you get certified and either way you will have the skill and a group of buddies who will have "T2 skill".

......When you first started diving or even taking fundies did you think you would be taking 3 stage bottles into a cave?

Is it a money/time off work issue with both you and your wife taking GUE courses? If not, there is no reason not to take T2.

 

[PfcAJ]

5 divers in my community will take the course next year and there is a spot free for me.
I’m already diving in caves using multiple stages (3-4)
doing deco/runtimes which are definitely outside the T1 limits.
If I don’t take this ticket it will be another 3-4 years before I see anybody else take T2.

I think based on what you wrote that you're in a good spot to do T2.

 

[decompression]

Yup....what AJ said.


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[beester]

Heya cpttightpants (nice name btw) and Pfcaj. Yes I read those (these were the only ones which turned up in a google search). I have the impression from the Manado one that it wasn't a great success, but YMMV. Both were good reads tho. After my T1 class with Mario Arena, he said well go out, have fun do a lot of Tx dives and then come back for more in T2.

I've definitely dived a lot, and I meet the T2 requirements, but I haven't done 100s of TX dives... Don't know how to explain it, but because the limits on C1 are very stringent, most people will take a C2 eventually. If you like cave diving it's no use not getting the training. With T2 I feel that's different, specifically if the wrecks in the neighborhood are not very deep. Of course I'll use it on wreck diving holidays, or in the caves (which is basically also only 2-3 weeks a year), but I'm not sure if that is sufficient?! The italian dudes, living close to shore do maybe 200 tx dives between T1 and T2. And if you start doing more advanced diving, shouldn't you take into concideration if you are doing those dives enough to be proficient?

When did you guys take the step? When did you feel ready and what was the driving force? What goal did you want to reach?

 

[CptTightPants21]

Heya cpttightpants (nice name btw) and Pfcaj. Yes I read those (these were the only ones which turned up in a google search). I have the impression from the Manado one that it wasn't a great success, but YMMV. Both were good reads tho. After my T1 class with Mario Arena, he said well go out, have fun do a lot of Tx dives and then come back for more in T2.

I've definitely dived a lot, and I meet the T2 requirements, but I haven't done 100s of TX dives... Don't know how to explain it, but because the limits on C1 are very stringent, most people will take a C2 eventually. If you like cave diving it's no use not getting the training. With T2 I feel that's different, specifically if the wrecks in the neighborhood are not very deep. Of course I'll use it on wreck diving holidays, or in the caves (which is basically also only 2-3 weeks a year), but I'm not sure if that is sufficient?! The italian dudes, living close to shore do maybe 200 tx dives between T1 and T2. And if you start doing more advanced diving, shouldn't you take into concideration if you are doing those dives enough to be proficient?

When did you guys take the step? When did you feel ready and what was the driving force? What goal did you want to reach?

As a guy who just started down this path myself take this with a grain of salt.

Why would I take T2
-climb the top of the GUE mountain. You have taken every other GUE class how could you not get the card for Tech 2
-Increased depth limit. Even if it takes a while to knock them off the list there are a lot of fantastic wrecks and caves out there that are off limits to you right now.
-Opens up GUE rebreather, Cave 3?

You're biggest factor seems to be that you won't be doing a lot of tech 2 dives. You actively dive in cave and wreck environments with multiple bottles, its not like Tech 2 is reinventing the wheel or imparts some magical skill. Talking with people who have passed Tech 2, the most difficult part of the class is constantly doing bottle rotations in blue water during the ascents. If you are already diving with the GUE mindset and skill set at 150 feet you are ready for tech 2. What is the fundamental difference between a dive at 150 ft vs 200 ft?---an extra bottle, slightly different breathing gas, but the skills, knowledge, and control are basically identical---and you are exhibiting them every time you dive.

What do they say? At the end of the day a tech class comes down to fundamentals, control either you have it or your don't?

This isn't even an issue of jumping into things to quickly, you have done a very steady and deliberate progression to your training.
I see two reasons not to take Tech 2:
1. Money--you don't have the funds or would rather devote those funds to another dive trip--tech 2 is expensive
2. You have made a blood oath to never dive below 180ft, you have no interest to ever see the Andria Doria or any wreck or cave below 180ft. Some people have a wall in their diving and they have no interest in progressing past it--I don't think that is you, but hey its a reason.

The fact that you are being very deliberate in your decision making is further proof in my book that any tech 2 skills learned won't deteriorate and you are ready.

It's not like you are a shallow warm water diver that is going to be diving in freezing cold, low viz at 250ft with your new Tech 2 card.

Maybe I am missing something, what in your mind is so radically different about executing a Tech 1 dive vs a Tech 2 dive?

Or here is an example I just thought up....you do a dive to 250 ft using 2 deco bottles and a stage. You do a longer dive at 150ft using 2 deco bottles and a stage. One is a Tech 2 depth, the other is a Tech 1 depth---what skills are you not using that you are afraid will deteriorate?

 

[PfcAJ]

Heya cpttightpants (nice name btw) and Pfcaj. Yes I read those (these were the only ones which turned up in a google search). I have the impression from the Manado one that it wasn't a great success, but YMMV. Both were good reads tho. After my T1 class with Mario Arena, he said well go out, have fun do a lot of Tx dives and then come back for more in T2.

I've definitely dived a lot, and I meet the T2 requirements, but I haven't done 100s of TX dives... Don't know how to explain it, but because the limits on C1 are very stringent, most people will take a C2 eventually. If you like cave diving it's no use not getting the training. With T2 I feel that's different, specifically if the wrecks in the neighborhood are not very deep. Of course I'll use it on wreck diving holidays, or in the caves (which is basically also only 2-3 weeks a year), but I'm not sure if that is sufficient?! The italian dudes, living close to shore do maybe 200 tx dives between T1 and T2. And if you start doing more advanced diving, shouldn't you take into concideration if you are doing those dives enough to be proficient?

When did you guys take the step? When did you feel ready and what was the driving force? What goal did you want to reach?

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't always take a ton of dives at the T2 range to stay proficient. Even when I lived in china for a year and effectively took that entire time off from diving, getting back into the game wasn't that hard. SOME PEOPLE might need to do the stuff all the time to stay sharp, and some do not, and some are in between. That's up to the individual to judge their abilities and make that call.

After T1, I was butting up against limits fairly soon after taking the class, and within a few years I was really surpassing those limits by a wide margin. My drive was (and is) deep cave diving, and I think I had exactly zero ocean trimix dives before taking T2. What really pushed me over the edge was when I woke up one day having done a fairly significant dive (multi-stage/deco, dpv. Full deal) and realized that "it was time". Simple as that. I wanted to refine my skills and expand my understanding of deco and dive planning and use that information to enhance my deep cave stuff.

What I did notice is that I was becoming a bit of a one trick pony and my ocean skills were lacking. Not unacceptable, but not where I wanted them. I've made a solid effort in the past year or so to do more ocean stuff, and I think its paid off by making me a better diver all around.

 

[johnkendall]

I'm a GUE Tech Instructor, so I know the class well,and I ca n safely say that T2 is an incredibly fun class. If your T1 skills are solid, and you don't need to think too much about buoyancy during ascents then you will have a great time. In a lot of places around the world getting T2 dives in is hard, however we also run a lot of projects, and having T2 will open the door to some of them.

If you have any direct questions about the class then please feel free to get in touch.

HTH
John

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[beester]

Heya all, Thanks for the input and advice. I've just registered for the course (Sardinia in June with Mario Arena... First time I take the same instructor for a new course, but the others wanted to take it with Mario).

@ John: I think I've seen you a couple of times in the Lot region when you were teaching classes. Next time I'l definitely will come and say hi. Nice site btw, well layed out. I might have some individual questions later on. Thanks for your advice.
@ AJ: You are right about skill maintenance. I'm a bit of a lazy bastard when it comes to that, of course I dive a lot so the basics are always there, but I can't be bothered going to a lake just to train basic skills. When I'm going cavediving (I'll be going in January again to the Lot) I do feel that the first couple of dives in a cave I need to adjust again. Like fine-tune... be more slick getting the cookies out, not wasting time staging tanks, and I see that a typical runtime to the shaft of Ressel (as example) will take a bit less time each time you do it, just because the finesse is getting bigger again. The same can be said about T diving. If there is one thing where I need to keep my wits about it's blue water ascends... because from origin we Belgians and Dutch are mud divers, doing shoredives on a local estuary, following the bottom up. Doing local wreckdives means chartering a boat (which I do about 12 times a year), but only half of those are not blown out. So you typically do only 10-20 wreckdives a year. I do notice I need more brain processing power making a blue water ascend than an ascend following a bottom (cave, shoredive).
@ Tightpants: You are right that the basic skills are the same for all the GUE classes , although diving multiple stages for me is a bit of a hassle, where as diving a single stage I don't feel at all. C2 was all about finesse in small spaces for me, whereas C1 was getting the basic cave diving skills and procedures down. Maybe the same can be set about T1 vs T2. Finesse in ascends, Finesse in stage handling. Let's see