tank position, why not like firefighters

[fire_diver]

Let's keep the two totally different uses separate here as what fire fighters do with them is pretty irrelevant to scuba diving.

Why are they totally different uses?
Lets see.... hmmmmm.
both are going into enviroments incapable of sustaining life.
both use a bottle of compressed breathing gas
both use a first stage regulator
both use a second stage regulator
both use a full face mask (ok, so THATS optional in scuba)
both involve wearing exposure protection with gloves that make it hard to do anything in.
both do thier thing in varying levels of visibility, including zero vis.
both involve practicing procedures blind, over and over and over and over.
both have to monitor thier air and thier teams' air levels
both can kill you if you screw up, or even if you do everything right.

SO.... other than scuba diving is done for pleasure, and may or may not involve a deco obligation, and firefighting is balls to the wall, work your ***** off until the fire is under control, how are they different?

FD

 

[J.R.]

Why is the valve UP? Hummm... I'm gonna' take some guesses (cause I don't really know)...

1: The ol' sea hunter himself, Mike Nelson, did it that way for years... [tradition]

2: We're more inclined to protect our noggin' than our butt... ergo the valve/first stage has secondary protection [bump theory]

3: That's the way the manufacter designed em'??? [The "mommy told me so" arguement]

4: MIGHT have something to do with the dynamics of pressure variances between the first stage and the second stage in various positions (theoretically you could have a 4 foot shift from 1st stage high to 1 stage low if ya' pivoted around your 2nd...) [possible physics consideration arguement]

5: Because nobody realized until now that it might be cool to try it... [the 'eureka' principle]

... just my two pence...

J.R.

OH... JUST THOUGHT OF ANOTHER ONE... if ya' loose your reg... where are ya' gonna reach to find it???

 

[plot]

Just the way it's been standardized?


Firemen have it facing down to protect it from falling objects I'd assume. Also, it keeps it out of the way of their other gear (like their helmet).


Scubadivers on the other hand, basic OW ones anyways, are more likely to hit the bottom of their tank then the top of their tank... so the first stage is more protected on top, instead of on bottom. Plus the comfort when putting their equipment on.


I'm sure their's an arguement somewhere too about first stage in relation to second stage and pressure differences or something, but I'm not that technically proficient in all those fine mechanics of diving just yet.

 

[PerroneFord]

As has been said...

The inverted tank setup has been done. I dive with people who've done it. In ZERO viz, ie, in caves.

Firefighters don't run reels, firefighters stand upright, firefighters don't work in a zero gravity environment, firefighters don't have 2-5 tanks on them.

Invariably, everyone I can think of who's tried inverted valves, has gone back to standard. the only exception are the rebreather folk. There are some people outside the US who are using inverted tanks. Maybe they like them. Maybe they are going through the same experimentation the cave community in the US did 25 years ago. I don't know.

But to say it's only being done the way we do it is because of tradition, or that no one has tried it, is patently false. It HAS been done, and it was abandoned because it was not as effective.

 

[rjsimp]

4: MIGHT have something to do with the dynamics of pressure variances between the first stage and the second stage in various positions (theoretically you could have a 4 foot shift from 1st stage high to 1 stage low if ya' pivoted around your 2nd...) [possible physics consideration arguement]

This was the first thing to come to my mind.. Seems that the first stage would be more efficient because it would always be at the closest depth that your head (and therefore second stage) is located. Just a thought anyhow..

 

[Mako Mark]

if you have the valve at the bottom, it allows you to get the last little bit of air out more easily...

 

[CIBDiving]

But to say it's only being done the way we do it is because of tradition, or that no one has tried it, is patently false. It HAS been done, and it was abandoned because it was not as effective.

Why is it you ( and others ) act like ONLY what happens in a cave determins the world of diving? You're a small ( VERY SMALL ) minority of divers, your gear is configured 'weird' compared to the majority of the worlds divers. You don't count for SQUAT.

 

[Mako Mark]

Why is it you ( and others ) act like ONLY what happens in a cave determins the world of diving? You're a small ( VERY SMALL ) minority of divers, your gear is configured 'weird' compared to the majority of the worlds divers. You don't count for SQUAT.

sounding a bit grizzly there CIB.. Saying cave diving doesnt count for squat in diving is like saying F1 doesnt count for squat in motoring

 

[PerroneFord]

Why is it you ( and others ) act like ONLY what happens in a cave determins the world of diving? You're a small ( VERY SMALL ) minority of divers, your gear is configured 'weird' compared to the majority of the worlds divers. You don't count for SQUAT.

Interesting, and ignorant, comment. Where do you think the "buoyancy compensator" came from? The recreational community? Dive Rite was producting and selling backplates and wings when the recreational community was jumping in the water with horsecollars. You also seem to like the idea of bright underwater lights. Who do you think introduced bright halogen and HIDs to the diving community? Double tanks? Gas management rules beyond, "surface when breathing gets hard". You think you'd see the advances in nitrox and trimix at this point without the cavers looking for a way to spend more time in the water safely?

The fact is, yes cave diving gear is weird compared a lot of the diving community. But that is because cave divers are constantly on the edge, trying to find a better way. And a lot of that innovation trickles down to the recreational dive community. Saying they don't account for squat is perhaps the most ignorant thing I've heard you say among the littany of crazy things you've said.

 

[fire_diver]

Why is it you ( and others ) act like ONLY what happens in a cave determins the world of diving? You're a small ( VERY SMALL ) minority of divers, your gear is configured 'weird' compared to the majority of the worlds divers. You don't count for SQUAT.

Come one now, lets keep it civil. We can have an intelligent conversation about controversial topics without insults. It's true that PF is a cave diver, it's what he knows and how he thinks. Doesn't mean that he's wrong in his thinking.

FD