Tanks - True cost of ownership

[Akimbo]

I don't have my PSI book with me, but I am pretty sure there is no such rule myself. In fact, if you are talking about the law, there is no law requiring a VIP in the first place…

Also true for O2 cleaning. “Standards” vary from sloshing a little diluted Simple Green around inside and drying it out for a while to NASA’s specifications.

Here is a decent common sense article, but is of no value from a potential liability perspective:

Oxygen Clean - Is a Myth • ADVANCED DIVER MAGAZINE • By Bart Bjorkman

…A lot of shops have a rule about an empty tank requiring a VIP, but that is only their rule, and IMO it is a way to get a few extra bucks from the customer.

I agree. In fact VIPs are gross overkill in the vast majority of cases. Unfortunately there are just enough idiots around that you can’t make a conclusive argument against them.

You have to ask yourself: If you always fill your cylinder at the same shop and your tank needs tumbling every year, what’s wrong with their compressor system? A well-maintained compressor produces air so dry that rust can’t form. HP Oxygen couldn’t be safely stored in steel cylinders if it could.

 

[redacted]

Easier than the freezer and only costs a few bucks: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/do-it-yourself-diy/354001-tank-equalizer-$2-50-a.html?highlight=equalizer

 

[jzipfel]

Here's what I learned today:

I think I deal with a very honest shop and will continue to support them as a customer. Why do you ask??

The shop has both banked 32% and they have a significant rebreather clientele so PP filling is used too. They will mix whatever you like.

When I stopped back there this afternoon, they had already opened the tanks and started the vis. They said the tanks were about the cleanest tanks they had ever seen. There was a orange tint inside that they wanted to look into, but the tanks were so clean that the he said there was no way he was going to charge me full price since there was so little for him to do. (First check in the "good guy" column)

Since they can mix anything, they want to protect their employees. They don't know what could have happened to the tanks since the valves came off, so for their own protection they want to make sure that they are safe for anything from 21 - 40 %O2 whether they used banked 32 or PP filled. Are they being a bit anal? Yep. A a safety professional, I like that. (Second check in the "goo guy column).

Given their adherence and concern for safety it gives me greater confidence that when they do other work for me, I can expect that same degree of care and concern for me and my equipment. (Third check in "good guy" column)

Given so many posts from others about safety and comments about how a diver shouldn't have done this or that because it isn't "safe", how could anybody fault the shop for doing what they see as the safest thing to do for both their employees and me and my son. Others may say it is overkill, or the chance of a problem with the tank is small is not an argument in favor of not doing something in my book.

Nice little lesson for me today. Yep, you learn each time you dive and you might also get a little knowledge when above water too.

 

[Subcooled]

Partial pressure fills of nitrox 21..40% are so last season. These can be done more easily and more safely and more cost efficiently using continuous flow blending (with magnet valves for safety).

A visual inspection does NOT reveveal oxygen cleanliness, and is thus unnecessary. Either the cylinder has been sealed and pressurized all the time, or it needs a cleaning.

 

[Akimbo]

Glad to hear your shop is being reasonable. It would be interesting to ask them if things would have been any different if you left the cylinder plugged. A phone call to the shop you bought it from may have been all it took.

Bottom line, keep everything plugged and bagged until you are ready to assemble.

 

[redacted]

A visual inspection does NOT reveveal oxygen cleanliness, and is thus unnecessary. Either the cylinder has been sealed and pressurized all the time, or it needs a cleaning.

Why would you assume that sealed and pressurized is safe?

 

[NWA395]

I thought I had all my i's dotted and t's crossed, but I guess I missed something.

I purchased some used Worthington LP95's. Nitrox ready. The seller was is a shop owner and the tanks were in current hydro and he did a visual and placed the sticker on them before they were shipped out. However, to ship them, the valves have to come off.

So, when I dropped of the tanks to get filled with 32% EAN, they tell me that since the valve is off they have to do a visual. Even if the current visiual was performed and stickered from a dive shop just last week. (Before they were shipped).

So now, here is my general question:

- If I purchase a brand new tank from say DRIS, it will be in current hydro, but I am assuming I will have to have the shop conduct a visual on a brand new tank before filling. (correct?)
- If I purchase a brand new tank from my shop do most shops include the visual with a brand new tank purchase so there is not added cost?
-What is the going rate for a visual (for Nitrox)

Thanks much

This may not be a popular reply but.....

How would you feel if the LDS took the word of every customer out there and slapped a sticker on anything that came through the door based on the customers word.

If I take in an EAN tank with no valve to my LDS or I informed them I received the tank in shipping and placed the valve myself, I cannot fault the LDS for requiring a viz or clean before they fill it.

Put yourself in the their position in this day of litigation.

Just saying.. each perspective has its own validation

 

[Subcooled]

Why would you assume that sealed and pressurized is safe?

One cannot assume that, but some risk has to be assumed... or else a lifetime will get wasted worrying.

Assuming that it WAS oxygen clean, and that it was always filled with clean gas... then the cylinder could get dirty only if the compressors filter was damaged or worn out. If you open the cylinder however, then grains of sand / dust / whatever could enter and cause heat in the bends of the hoses. This could spark an oxygen fire.

 

[jzipfel]

This may not be a popular reply but.....

How would you feel if the LDS took the word of every customer out there and slapped a sticker on anything that came through the door based on the customers word.

If I take in an EAN tank with no valve to my LDS or I informed them I received the tank in shipping and placed the valve myself, I cannot fault the LDS for requiring a viz or clean before they fill it.

Put yourself in the their position in this day of litigation.

Just saying.. each perspective has its own validation

Since you quoted me I have to assume it was directed at me. I must also assume you did not read my posts.

 

[Scared Silly]

Folks need to understand the difference between federal regulations and industry standards. VIPs are a scuba industry standard. Not following regulations and standards can have implications when things go wrong regardless.