Teaching yourself to dive

[Skydiver1]

Hi,

The training materials are readily available on the internet, as is equipment from a dive shop. Do such individuals learn from friends, who are not necessarily dive professionals?

It seems to be recognised as reality as on my insurance policy it states "We must agree with any equivalent qualification. If you do not hold a qualification, We will only cover you to dive to a depth of 60 feet"

Also what is the situation with commercial divers who would have vast experience. Surely they are proficient going much deeper than 60 feet - do they have insurance options while not holding a c-card.

 

[BoltSnap]

Can you please clarify the statement and the question(s) you are trying to make/ask? I don't get you at all.

 

[DevonDiver]

The training materials are readily available on the internet, as is equipment from a dive shop. Do such individuals learn from friends, who are not necessarily dive professionals?

You're a skydiver right? So I am sure you can grasp the concept that expert tuition is vital in a risk prone activity. There is a huge difference between knowledge and skill. I think the failure to recognise that is a symptom of the modern internet generation.

As for being taught by friends... you'd have to commit fraud at the dive shop renting the equipment.

Regardless of any training, you'd be refused diving at most shops/resorts/boats without a valid scuba certification.

What would be the point? Increased risk vs no benefit.

It seems to be recognised as reality as on my insurance policy it states "We must agree with any equivalent qualification. If you do not hold a qualification, We will only cover you to dive to a depth of 60 feet"

Check with your insurance company. They only allow the 60ft coverage because you need it to actually become qualified (i.e. take an OW course).

They won't pay a cent for any treatment needed as a result of a dives that do not adhere to the primary scuba agency's Safe Diving Principles.

Also what is the situation with commercial divers who would have vast experience. Surely they are proficient going much deeper than 60 feet - do they have insurance options while not holding a c-card.

Commercial divers in Europe and the USA (and working for international companies) are licensed. The training costs six-figures and far exceeds that provided to recreational sport scuba divers.

I am surprised you don't google some of this, before presenting it on the forum?

 

[Skydiver1]

I am surprised you don't google some of this, before presenting it on the forum?

Not advocating it, was wondering if in reality there are many divers out there who have never been officially certified. I can't ascertain that using a google search. Not forcing anyone to respond to the thread, they can ignore it if they so wish.

The question about commercial, or even military divers related to regular insurance policies. My insurance basically requires a c-card from one of the main agencies such as PADI, or SSI if diving more than 60 feet. The question I had was would for example, a military diver who had vastly more experience than a typical recreational diver, have to take his open water course and then advanced open water in order to get covered while diving on vacation. As you say most dive shops want cert cards for their own insurance, so would such a diver have to be able to produce a typical open water or advanced open water card to get on a vacation dive shop boat.

Your point about commercial divers being licenced presumably covers them only while they are performing work related activities, and not while they are off on vacation somewhere in a tropical location

 

[Crush]

No, you don't need the unnecessary expense of formal lessons - check out http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ing-diving/308884-can-you-learn-scuba-tv.html .

See you at the bottom!

 

[djb_1965]

Navy divers who come out of dive training receive a NAUI card.

 

[Quero]

Do individuals learn from friends, who are not necessarily dive professionals?

Sometimes people do learn to dive from a mentor. The issue isn't so much whether materials are available or if you are able to buy dive equipment or whether your insurance covers you if you haven't had formal training, but rather whether when learning from a more experienced diver that particular mentor has the background to adequately anticipate a learner's difficulties and help the learner to overcome them.

Professional instructors have not just their own experience behind them giving them a wealth of strategies to work with the myriad issues that individual divers-in-training present, but they also have undergone specific training of their own to help them predict the kinds of issues that often come up during courses and to meet these issues with various teaching strategies. This would be the case no matter how much diving experience a mentor might have, including divers who have trained as commercial divers and as military divers.

Just as not every competent athlete makes a good coach, not every experienced diver makes a good instructor. Those of us who enjoy teaching and derive satisfaction from helping others experience the underwater world safely and skillfully are a small subset of all divers in the same way that those athletes who become coaches are a small subset in their sports. I consider mentoring an important aspect in the development of scuba divers, but for certain levels of training, I believe it is important to get that training from a qualified professional instructor.

 

[BoltSnap]

Not advocating it, was wondering if in reality there are many divers out there who have never been officially certified. I can't ascertain that using a google search. Not forcing anyone to respond to the thread, they can ignore it if they so wish.

The question about commercial, or even military divers related to regular insurance policies. My insurance basically requires a c-card from one of the main agencies such as PADI, or SSI if diving more than 60 feet. The question I had was would for example, a military diver who had vastly more experience than a typical recreational diver, have to take his open water course and then advanced open water in order to get covered while diving on vacation. As you say most dive shops want cert cards for their own insurance, so would such a diver have to be able to produce a typical open water or advanced open water card to get on a vacation dive shop boat.

Your point about commercial divers being licenced presumably covers them only while they are performing work related activities, and not while they are off on vacation somewhere in a tropical location

If you are asking if there are people out there that are diving but don't have a certification from a recognized agency, the answer is yes! I am sure that there are lots of them all over the world. What is your point/question here?

As regards to military divers, yes, they end up having to get certified by a civilian certification agency to be able to go diving with a recreational operation. This doesn't mean that they can't go diving on their own if they have their own compressor, boat, etc. I have seen divers from the national guard come in to dive at a popular dive site in Rhode Island but they come in with their military truck and dive with their military issued gear.

 

[DevonDiver]

The question about commercial, or even military divers related to regular insurance policies. My insurance basically requires a c-card from one of the main agencies such as PADI, or SSI if diving more than 60 feet. The question I had was would for example, a military diver who had vastly more experience than a typical recreational diver, have to take his open water course and then advanced open water in order to get covered while diving on vacation. As you say most dive shops want cert cards for their own insurance, so would such a diver have to be able to produce a typical open water or advanced open water card to get on a vacation dive shop boat.

Your point about commercial divers being licenced presumably covers them only while they are performing work related activities, and not while they are off on vacation somewhere in a tropical location

This is true. Military divers are covered by military health providers when diving in that capacity. Commercial divers will have insurance/healthcare provided by insurance and/or contracted medical staff.

I dove in the UK military, within unit sports diving clubs, and we used the BSAC system (USA use NAUI I believe). However, the medical requirements were much more stringent than civilian divers, as were the dive leadership training courses.

UK military divers who complete service/military scuba courses don't automatically recieve a recreational diving certification card. However, their relevant service qualification is regarded by some agencies (BSAC, PADI) as an equivalent. I doubt that many insurance companies would allow that equivalency though... it'd certainly be something I'd want confirmation of in writing.

In the UK military, recreational diving is provided via a full-time diving centre in Devon, and by sports clubs operating on unit barracks around the country. It's not hard to get certified at those and it's free.

When I dived around the UK and on overseas expeditions within the military, healthcare was provided by military sources in the first instance. In the UK itself, medical insurance was not vital, due to National Health Service provision. Not a penny charged for evacuations, hospital or hyperbaric treatment.

Whilst diving in my private time, outside of the UK, I would have no cover from military. Any insurance I needed would be paid for - which means the certification had to be recognised by the insurance company.

 

[Skydiver1]

If you are asking if there are people out there that are diving but don't have a certification from a recognized agency, the answer sure. I am sure that there is lots of them all over the world. What is your point/question here?

My question is to do with prevalence of divers without official training. Just as one might ask of prevalence of DCS syndrome, accident prevalence in general population. Like alot of things, there's not really a point, it's just a question I have which arose when reading my insurance policy which covers non certified divers less than 60 feet.

As regards to military divers, yes, they end up having to get certified by a civilian certification agency to be able to go diving with a recreational operation. This doesn't mean that they can't go diving on their own if they have their own compressor, boat, etc. I have seen divers from the national guard come in to dive at a popular dive site in Rhode Island but they come in with their military truck and dive with their military issued gear.

That's interesting, I thought there might be another route or waiver for them to get a card (for insurance, etc) without having to complete certification course.