Tec, Where to begin??
- Thread starter Zackery
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I dive with a SSI shop and with PADI shop. The SSI shop requires me to wear a snorkel and the PADI shop does not. Maybe it is a shop requirement not a PADI requirement.
DevonDiver
N/A
PADI have a requirement to carry a snorkel on recreational level courses. Carry is different to worn. It's not recommended at technical levels, certainly not mandated. I've never met an instructor of any agency, ever, that wore a snorkel for tech diving.
To make such claims is ludicrous. Beyond absurd.
To make such claims is ludicrous. Beyond absurd.
As it seems the place to note training requirements, I've listed those of the World Underwater Federation (CMAS):
Normoxic Trimix Diver
Course entry qualifications
3.1. Minimum age 18years.
3.2. Diving qualification: 3-Star diver CMAS (Divemaster) or equivalent CMAS Advanced Nitrox Diver (level 2) or equivalent qualification from a recognised diver training agency.
3.3. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives: Candidates must show proof of 150 logged dives, plus logged proof 20 dives as an Advanced or Extended Range Nitrox Diver.
3.4. Medical: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their National Federation.
Minimum course duration:
Theory/practical lectures: 10 hours
Open water dives: Six dives, with a minimum of 300 minutes in-water experience. No more than two dives per day. The surface interval between Dive one and Dive two will be not be less than 3-hours. The Bottom-Time at 60m will no greater than 15 minutes.
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum 18 years of age.
3.2. Diving qualification: 3-Star diver (Divemaster) CMAS or equivalent.
3.3. CMAS Normoxic Trimix Diver or equivalent.
3.4. CMAS Advanced Nitrox Diver (level 2) or equivalent qualification from a recognise diver training agency.
3.5. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives:
3.5.1.candidates must show logged proof of 20 Normoxic Trimix,
3.5.2.with two within the last month.
3.6. Medical: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their National Federation.
3.7. Personally owned necessary technical equipment (see suggested equipment list below)
Advanced Trimix Diver
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum 18 years of age.
3.2. Diving qualification: 3-Star diver CMAS or equivalent.
3.3. CMAS Normoxic Trimix Diver or equivalent.
3.4. CMAS Advanced Nitrox Diver (level 2) or equivalent qualification from a recognise diver training agency.
3.5. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives:
3.5.1. candidates must show logged proof of 20 Normoxic Trimix,
3.5.2. with two within the last month.
3.6. Medical: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their
National Federation.
3.7. Personally owned necessary technical equipment (see suggested equipment list below)
Minimum course duration:
Theory/practical lectures: 10 hours
Open water dives: Four dives, with a minimum of 300 minutes in-water experience. No more than one dives per day.
Normoxic Trimix Instructor
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum age 20years.
3.2.Diving qualification: CMAS Normoxic Trimix Diver or equivalent qualification from a recognised diver training agency.
3.3. Instructor qualifications: CMAS 2-Star Instructor and CMAS Advanced Nitrox Instructor.
3.4.National Qualifications: Must be an instructor with an active teaching status according to the requirements of his/her National Organisation or CDC.
3.5.Other qualifications: CMAS Gas Blender or equivalent qualification from a recognised diver training agency.
3.6.Minimum number of logged qualifying dives: Candidates must show proof of 12 Normoxic Trimix dives.
3.7.Medical declaration: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their National Federation.
3.8. Insurance: A suitable Third Party and Public liability insurance is held, as required by their National Federation covering this type of diving.
3.9.Equipment: The candidate will provide all necessary diving equipment to complete this course (see suggest list below).
Minimum course duration:
Theory/practical lectures: 6 hours (3 of which have to be on the theory)
Open water dives: Four dives, with a minimum of 160 minutes in-water experience. No more than two dives per day. The surface interval between Dive one and Dive two will be not be less than 3-hours. The Bottom-Time at 60m will no greater than 20 minutes.
Advanced Trimix Instructor
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum age, 20-years.
3.2. Diving qualification: CMAS Advanced Trimix Diver or equivalent qualification from a recognized diver training agency.
3.3. Instructor qualifications: CMAS Normoxic Trimix Instructor, or equivalent qualifications from a recognized diver training agency.
3.4. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives: Candidates must show proof of 24 Trimix dives (minimum of 10 dives 70-100m).
3.5. Trimix instruction experience
Acted as an assistant on at least one Advanced Trimix course.
Mininum course duration:
9.1. Theory/practical lectures: 10 hours
9.2. Open water dives: Six dives, with a minimum of 300-minutes in-water experience. No more than two dives per day. The surface interval between Dive one and Dive two will be not be less than 3-hours. The Bottom-Time at 80m will no greater than 15 minutes one dive per day at this depth.
Normoxic Trimix Diver
Course entry qualifications
3.1. Minimum age 18years.
3.2. Diving qualification: 3-Star diver CMAS (Divemaster) or equivalent CMAS Advanced Nitrox Diver (level 2) or equivalent qualification from a recognised diver training agency.
3.3. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives: Candidates must show proof of 150 logged dives, plus logged proof 20 dives as an Advanced or Extended Range Nitrox Diver.
3.4. Medical: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their National Federation.
Minimum course duration:
Theory/practical lectures: 10 hours
Open water dives: Six dives, with a minimum of 300 minutes in-water experience. No more than two dives per day. The surface interval between Dive one and Dive two will be not be less than 3-hours. The Bottom-Time at 60m will no greater than 15 minutes.
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum 18 years of age.
3.2. Diving qualification: 3-Star diver (Divemaster) CMAS or equivalent.
3.3. CMAS Normoxic Trimix Diver or equivalent.
3.4. CMAS Advanced Nitrox Diver (level 2) or equivalent qualification from a recognise diver training agency.
3.5. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives:
3.5.1.candidates must show logged proof of 20 Normoxic Trimix,
3.5.2.with two within the last month.
3.6. Medical: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their National Federation.
3.7. Personally owned necessary technical equipment (see suggested equipment list below)
Advanced Trimix Diver
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum 18 years of age.
3.2. Diving qualification: 3-Star diver CMAS or equivalent.
3.3. CMAS Normoxic Trimix Diver or equivalent.
3.4. CMAS Advanced Nitrox Diver (level 2) or equivalent qualification from a recognise diver training agency.
3.5. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives:
3.5.1. candidates must show logged proof of 20 Normoxic Trimix,
3.5.2. with two within the last month.
3.6. Medical: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their
National Federation.
3.7. Personally owned necessary technical equipment (see suggested equipment list below)
Minimum course duration:
Theory/practical lectures: 10 hours
Open water dives: Four dives, with a minimum of 300 minutes in-water experience. No more than one dives per day.
Normoxic Trimix Instructor
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum age 20years.
3.2.Diving qualification: CMAS Normoxic Trimix Diver or equivalent qualification from a recognised diver training agency.
3.3. Instructor qualifications: CMAS 2-Star Instructor and CMAS Advanced Nitrox Instructor.
3.4.National Qualifications: Must be an instructor with an active teaching status according to the requirements of his/her National Organisation or CDC.
3.5.Other qualifications: CMAS Gas Blender or equivalent qualification from a recognised diver training agency.
3.6.Minimum number of logged qualifying dives: Candidates must show proof of 12 Normoxic Trimix dives.
3.7.Medical declaration: Candidates must provide a medical declaration of fitness to dive, as set out by their National Federation.
3.8. Insurance: A suitable Third Party and Public liability insurance is held, as required by their National Federation covering this type of diving.
3.9.Equipment: The candidate will provide all necessary diving equipment to complete this course (see suggest list below).
Minimum course duration:
Theory/practical lectures: 6 hours (3 of which have to be on the theory)
Open water dives: Four dives, with a minimum of 160 minutes in-water experience. No more than two dives per day. The surface interval between Dive one and Dive two will be not be less than 3-hours. The Bottom-Time at 60m will no greater than 20 minutes.
Advanced Trimix Instructor
Course entry qualifications:
3.1. Minimum age, 20-years.
3.2. Diving qualification: CMAS Advanced Trimix Diver or equivalent qualification from a recognized diver training agency.
3.3. Instructor qualifications: CMAS Normoxic Trimix Instructor, or equivalent qualifications from a recognized diver training agency.
3.4. Minimum number of logged qualifying dives: Candidates must show proof of 24 Trimix dives (minimum of 10 dives 70-100m).
3.5. Trimix instruction experience
Acted as an assistant on at least one Advanced Trimix course.
Mininum course duration:
9.1. Theory/practical lectures: 10 hours
9.2. Open water dives: Six dives, with a minimum of 300-minutes in-water experience. No more than two dives per day. The surface interval between Dive one and Dive two will be not be less than 3-hours. The Bottom-Time at 80m will no greater than 15 minutes one dive per day at this depth.
DevonDiver,
There is a lot of anti-PADI opinion in the world and it is rampant on Scubaboard. Providing these people with the facts will not change their opinion.
I was recently in Europe and wanted to join a CMAS club on a weekend diving trip to a local lake. They refused to allow me to join because I was PADI and SSI. They said that I could have joined them if I was only SSI.
I do not have a lot of experience with different diving agencies, just SSI and PADI. In my personal opinion PADI is better than SSI. But that is not the say that all PADI instructors are better than all SSI instructors or that the course material is better. It is just that I received better training from PADI than I have from SSI. If I would have listened to the anti-PADI propaganda floating around I would have missed on some very through training and be a poorer diver as a result.
There is a lot of anti-PADI opinion in the world and it is rampant on Scubaboard. Providing these people with the facts will not change their opinion.
I was recently in Europe and wanted to join a CMAS club on a weekend diving trip to a local lake. They refused to allow me to join because I was PADI and SSI. They said that I could have joined them if I was only SSI.
I do not have a lot of experience with different diving agencies, just SSI and PADI. In my personal opinion PADI is better than SSI. But that is not the say that all PADI instructors are better than all SSI instructors or that the course material is better. It is just that I received better training from PADI than I have from SSI. If I would have listened to the anti-PADI propaganda floating around I would have missed on some very through training and be a poorer diver as a result.
DevonDiver
N/A
Technical diving is technical diving. Even accounting for varied agency (or personal) philosophies, the same basic skill-set and scope of competencies exists across the board. An instructor can either prepare people to undertake such dives safely and competently, or he/she cannot.
I've looked long and hard at varied agencies in the recent years. I've been privileged to train in several already.. and have been considering additional agencies in which to progress instructor status. To be honest, none of them are 'perfect' in my opinion. All have strengths and weaknesses.. all have good and bad instructors.
PADI (TecRec) makes sense for me. I actually think their entry-level tech syllabus (Tec40-50) is well thought out. They don't like to involve themselves in overhead environment, it seems, which doesn't quite suit me as I like to specialize in wreck diving. PADI have an enormous marketing machine though - and TecRec courses still develop the most inquiries I receive. On the down side, PADI have been keen to expand their tech market share - that means saturating the market with instructors (as they do with rec diving). To achieve this, they lowered standards, made the process quicker... gave people instructor certifications they aren't expert to teach.
I had the option to cross-over at technical level to SSI. I was already an SSI recreational instructor. The TXr program is ok... but hasn't benefited from any marketing or awareness raising. SSI also require a formal shop-instructor relationship - that doesn't suit me as an independent instructor. There seemed no benefit to me for investing to get SSI TXr instructor tickets.
BSAC have no real foothold here in the Philippines, so there was little point in chasing tech-level instructor qualifications with them (I qualified as a BSAC instructor first). I also don't like their disapproval of the hogarthian long-hose configuration. Of all the agencies I am very familiar with, BSAC seem the least 'in-touch' with technical diving progress.
ANDI was a natural choice for me - I have access to an extremely experienced mentor, who is a personal friend. ANDI seem to have high-standards for instructor entry and the conduct of diving. I was impressed with their wreck and technical wreck courses. I also like their sidemount/advanced sidemount courses; which are more focused upon overhead environment applications (right up my street). I've been progressing my ANDI tech-level instructor ratings for the past few years and it's been a good challenge. They are one of the oldest tech agencies...and have good pedigree. I also like that ANDI make specific effort to support the instructor/shop as an agency priority. The only drawback I see with ANDI is that they haven't yet managed to decipher the 'riddle' of internet and social-media marketing. The agency doesn't attract much interest - only the reputation of individual tech instructors seems to ensure inquiries come in.
I have thought long and hard about IANTD. They have a good reputation. They aren't so well represented here in the Philippines (they are here though) and, just my personal opinion, seem to have been losing market visibility over recent years. If I was still in the UK, I might well have investigated instructor membership more closely.
TDI must vary around the globe, I think. I did my first technical training with TDI (Mark Powell, in the UK) and it was excellent. TDI are a very well known tech agency now. In the Asia region however, I did hear complaints that they had done a 'market share grab' in recent years - massively increasing the instructor population through fast-tracks and low-commitment cross-overs...at the expense of diluting instructor quality. They do have a very broad range of courses however, and seem interested in proving new areas of instruction. I might well consider TDI cross-over in the next 1-2 years.
GUE and UTD are just to rigid for my liking. I like to teach my students to think, to assess, to investigate and to decide. Strict philosophies degrade that freedom of expression. GUE doesn't do sidemount...and their CCR is very limited. UTD have been expanding a lot with instructor cross-overs etc... I've seen some iffy instructors grab up UTD ratings, which raises question marks. Plus, the Z-manifold is such a turn-off. I am a "99%" DIR diver... but sorry, I took the red pill (not the kool aid) and I'm happy to see how deep the rabbit hole goes..
PSAI and NAUI... sorry, nobody ever heard of them where I live...
I don't know the reason why spc, but it could be that PADI OW is equivalent to a CMAS One Star Diver (PADI/CMAS Agreement). A * Star cannot dive unsupervised and must have a buddy of ** or above accompany him (unless provided with further training from a CMAS Instructor such as a specialty). The maximum depth is 20 meters. Perhaps the dives planned were deeper or there were not enough ** or *** divers wanting to dive with a stranger, I don't know.
PADI has a bad rep in many countries. Their training standards historically have been the lowest in the industry. It's unfortunate, because there are some excellent PADI Instructors who run good programs, however those that I do know do not follow PADI's training restrictions in their courses. PADI's Tec programs are a different kettle of fish.
waterpirate
Contributor
What a bunch of wasted band width. We have all identified it is about the instructor, and more so a mentor who was trained by said instructor to get you ready/prepped if you will. I do not give a rats a$$ what card the guy is carrying, either they are fit to teach and dive with or they are not. If you can not identify that or tell the differance, that is where the mentor comes in.
Cheers
Eric
Cheers
Eric
I told them that I had SSI ow and PADI aow,drysuit,ppb,deep and nitrox (the deep and nitrox was done by a PADI RecTec instructor). They said if all I had was SSI ow I could have gone diving with them but because I was also PADI no go. At the time I also had over 50 resent dives in similar conditions.
If I was going to do Tec diving I would likely go with the RecTec instructor that did my deep and nitrox courses. He is a good diver and instructor. And I like the quality of the students his shop turn out. However, there is a shop in the area that has a GUE instructor on staff and I have always really liked the way GUE does things.
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What makes you think GUE instruction doesn't do that? In every class I've taken, we've talked about various ways that things can be done, and the rationale for why GUE does it the way they do. They don't just teach "their way". They teach the "why" of the decisions, even when the answer is, "There are a bunch of approaches, but since we wanted to standardize, we had to choose one."
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