Thank the powers of the Deep...

[Pam and Stella]

After posting my C- story, It was brought to my attention and others on this board, of the great need in scuba for this forum.

There is a large learning curve to this sport. To hear experienced divers share their underwater stories is invaluable. The course work is a breeze,but so much information in so little time is difficult to access right away if need be. The awesomeness of a foreign environment like the Deep Blue, is stimulation overload for at least the first ten dives or so, I felt.

Thanks to King Neptune and the other helpers on board. You truely are a remarkable group, and KN, your wisdom in running these forums, although not always understood by many let me assure you that you are apreciated none the less!


You all are going to save lives here! It is a huge relief to have superiors talk to you, not down to you.

The best teachers interface this way. The chest thumping Alpha "DIR" Types are not too overly present or welcome here!

Pam

 

[SubMariner]

It makes no difference whether you are a newbie or an Instructor Trainer: if you see something that "isn't right", you should be telling that Agency's QA department about it. Otherwise, how is anyone else to know?

Our courses aren't "the cheapest" or "the fastest". And just signing up for one isn't a guarantee that you'll pass.

You won't get a C-card from us unless you've EARNED it. And if you're not happy about that... sorry... go some place else.

That being said, we know that not everyone is suited to scuba. Don't get me wrong. If someone truly has the desire and drive to strive at it and overcome their own personal demons to dive, we will keep working with them until they do. Many times THESE are the people who become the best dive professionals because they know what it's like to work for something, and so, have the most patience to help others achieve this goal.

In the end, it IS the Instructor that makes the difference. Just because Agency A requires 600 hours of pool time and 3000 dives to become an open water diver doesn't make THEIR course the best. Just as the two-day-wonderdiver course doesn't make someone elses course the best. Each student learns at his/her own pace. All the Instructor can do is facilitate the learning process.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of the "us" vs "them" mentality that pervades this industry between the agencies. Heaven help you if you're "with the wrong agency"! If YOU PERSONALLY have a problem with Agency X, well, talk to THEM about it... don't flame the people who are certified with that particular agency, they may have no idea where your attacking is coming from. Otherwise, all you're doing is fueling the death of the industry.

Getting off my soapbox now,

~SubMariner~

 

[bio guy]

Thanks for the info everyone... Although diving is a serious sport, I'm glad to see instructors using teaching techniques to remind students why they wanted to start diving in the first place... To ENJOY the world's oceans and lakes.

Submariner... I agree... It is the instructor that makes the student, and those that take pride in developing competent, responsible, life-long divers, need to be commended for their work.

Bio guy

 

[Tom]

I was presented with an opportunity yesterday and took full advantage of it.

My fifteen year old son started his OW class on Saturday and I was working so I couldn't go, but on Sunday I sat in for 3 hours of classroom and then went in the pool with the class in the afternoon. After reading this thread for the last few weeks I had a different point of view than when I first took the class this time last year.

I spent a lot of time comparing this class to mine, and thinking about the ideas on this thread. The instructor teaches for several agencies (5 I believe) and many times told us about minor differences between the agencies when we were working on a skill. Most were very minor.

After the class we had a chance to talk for a few minutes and he confirmed how small most of the differences are, that most instructors are certified by more than one agency, and that most instructors will teach most of the class the same regardless of the agency they are certifying for.

My feelings before, and still, are that a combination of the students attitude and the instructor is what matters.
There are political differences between agencies. There are students who can't handle it, physically or mentally. There are personality conflicts between shops, staffs and students. And there are bad instructors. But a good instructor and a good student can produce a good diver. It doesn't matter what color your card is when you're done.

Tom
My card is blue
(maybe they all are - I don't know)

 

[Mrs. don]

This is a very thought provoking thread. I did not realize how much I missed or should I say what info was not offered until I had more experience in diving. It has only been because I am an info seeker that I have continued my diving education.

The training agency did send me a QA form after my OW certification. I did not fill it out as I knew that my instructor had done things that he should not have. It was because I liked him as a person and respected his knowledge that I did not report these things. I know realize that I was wrong. I think that if that agency sent me a followup questionare I would not hesitate to report these things.

I am a nurse and get quite upset that I have dedicated my life to the health and safety of others. I know that my actions may have put other peoples life in danger. I sometimes wonder if the "bad" instructors think about the fact that lives are in their hands and their quest for $ can cost more money than they will ever make in a lifetime.

Maybe some of you out there may have enough influence with the various agency to make a suggestion for me. I feel that they might have greater feedback if some QA was done a year or so after certification.

 

[turnerjd]

Hadn't popped into this part of the board untill this morning, so I had missed most of this thread whilst it was going, however, I thought I ought to add my .02.

Untill about a year ago there were 2 diving shops near where I lived. One was v. diver orientated, very relaxed, qualified divers would stop in for a coffee and chat, the other was very business like, and renowned for putting a *lot* of divers through o/w courses (was known as the diving initiative, or to divers, the dodgy initiative). We now only have one diving shop in the area. It isn't the nice friendly shop, because for them, being consciencious didn't pay.

Customers didn't know the difference between a £180 course and a £280 course. They also never found out that one shop got its prices so low because they qualified instructors, and as part of the deal (to reduce the instructor course cost) they made them teach 4 or 5 courses for free. Also, a lot of money is made out of equipement sales, so if you are putting a *lot* more students through o/w you get a lot more sales of everything from m/f/s through to regs, as the divers you qualify go on and build up their own kit.

The problem was, that after a while, you dived somewhere else, and realised what a raw deal you got at the cattle market shop, and went to the other, except, a lot of people qualified through the cattle market shop for some reason stopped diving.

I occasionally DM'd for the now non existant shop, and have done one course for the dodgy initiative. Having done a course for each, I am now *very* choosy as to who I DM for. It wasn't just the way courses were run, and their whole attitude, it was also discovering that it was run by two of the more respected PADI Course Directors in the UK!

The only thing I can say, is that if you find a shop / centre / club that you are happy with, then stick to them, they are worth their weight in gold. I for one am particularly pissed off at now having no choice as to where I go for fills etc.

-end of rant-

Jon T

 

[Military Diver]

This is going to blow some of you away...

It was recently brought to my attention about a certain NON-DIVING related magazine that mentioned this site and posts in this thread within a scuba diving related article they had.

I came onto the forums and searched for some lines mentioned within this article and found it to be this thread.

Interesting, but people are taking notice of what all of you here are doing!!!

 

[Coyote]

bio guy once bubbled...
Scubabunny

You hit the mark right on with this board. I have told all my close diving buddies about the knowledge, professionalism and respect for each other, that this board has.

Maybe the instructors of the group can answer this question...and I know it will be different from each agency...but in general, have the pre-scuba screening tests changed much over the years? I remember the beast of a swimming test that each of us had to preform before we could continue with the course. I was fortunate to have an amazing instructor who viewed it as a continuing bond. We could come back to her years later and get diving advice etc.
In the last year or two though, I have heard some newer divers saying that they just needed a medical and that was it (different instructors).

I was just wondering if the rules and regs had changed.

Cheers,

Bio guy

I just did my Open Water in May. We had to pass a swim test as well as a medical which was done by a dive doctor. If you didn't pass one or the other you didn't do the rest of the course .

Coyote

 

[Cave Diver]

Military Diver once bubbled...
It was recently brought to my attention about a certain NON-DIVING related magazine that mentioned this site and posts in this thread within a scuba diving related article they had.

I came onto the forums and searched for some lines mentioned within this article and found it to be this thread.

Interesting, but people are taking notice of what all of you here are doing!!!

Very interesting. The other posts in this thread are more over 2 years old (Jan 2001). What magazine is referencing such an old post?

 

[Butch103]

"everything old is new again".......

For those new to the board......review some of the older posts....I usally reiview one of the previous 100 pages on a regular basis, and find very interesting threads. I also find we rehash many many thoughts....................