The $99 scuba course question

[stuartv]

students who price shop on training are not planning on becoming divers, because certification is usually the very cheapest part by far about being a diver. (It should not be, but it is. Unfortunately the only people charging significantly more for OW tend to teach overly long self-aggrandizing courses, so the more expensive courses tend to get a bad name because the instructor is just ego teaching.)

If the students are trying to, or have to, spend as little as possible to get a license, they are certainly not going to spend any more to actually go diving, since they already achieved the goal.

I think all this may be true for some, but is completely wrong for others, so as general statements, these are worthless.

I price shopped for my OW cert - hard. I paid $300, but that included everything except for me providing my own snorkeling gear, which I was free to use what I already had or buy from anywhere I wanted. That is the cheapest I have ever seen a COMPLETE (except for snorkeling gear) OW cert package for, and I shopped on and off for 2 years before I was finally able to get 'er done.

It's been 5 months since I completed my OW cert and I now have all my own gear, including (so far) 1 tank and 1 pony. And I have completed 2 additional certs, so far, and am in the middle of a combined course right now that would give me 5 more full certs, if I want to pay the registration fees for them all (I'm only going to actually claim 2 of them). And I think I will take the class to get the TDI Nitrox cert (already have SDI Nitrox) this weekend. And have logged 20 dives, so far (counting the 4 OW cert dives).

The reason your statements are wrong for me (and, I would guess, at least some other people) is that I REALLY WANT to dive. And I'm on a limited budget. So, I price shopped hard in order to be able to afford the class. A very nice and unexpected Christmas bonus allowed me to go on a spree for a bunch of gear (all used or Closeout specials). Without the bonus, I would still have bought a few of the things and still be working on scrounging the rest.

I also think it's pretty lame to attribute bad motives or instruction to a shop strictly based on the price of the class they offer. You know, some businesses DO operate on the principle that starting a customer off as cheap as possible will bring them into the fold and good customer service will keep them there.

Just because the stats for a $99 class shows higher attrition than a $500 class doesn't mean that the $99 class is turning out any less real divers. It might just mean that the $99 class is turning out as many (or more) real divers and ALSO turning out a shload of people who at least now have some exposure to scuba diving, even though they never do it again.

If a shop could train two people at $500 each and they become "real" divers, what is wrong with training those same two people plus 8 more at the same time, all for $100 each, as long as they provide the same quality of training? Maybe one or two of those 8 extra people will turn out to be a "real" diver, too, and isn't that better for us all, in the long run?

I think, instead of complaining about shops offering cheap classes, if anyone is concerned about classes that are turning out incompetent divers that are nevertheless certified to go diving all on their own (with a similarly skilled buddy), maybe it would be better to focus on what the standards are that are producing this situation. Maybe there should be an intermediate level of certification that allows you to dive, but only with a certified DM as a guide?

And maybe DM certification should be stratified into DMs that are certified to lead dives of only divers with full certifications and a higher level for DM that allows leading dives that include people with that intermediate OW cert. Or maybe just additional standards for DMs, with no stratification. If a DM goes out with people with full certs, they don't have to even get in the water. But, if they are leading a dive that includes anyone with the intermediate "guided dive only" cert, the standards require that they get in and lead any of those people that will follow them.

Regardless, if the certification is that "you are now certified to be capable of diving all on your own (with a similarly skilled buddy)" and the current standards are resulting in MANY divers that really, simply, are not actually capable of doing what they are "certified" to do, then it seems that either the cert needs to change, the standards need to change, or both. It's not something to fix by getting rid of $99 classes.

Also, why NOT have some Scuba Police? If an agency wants to gain or maintain a reputation for producing solid, capable divers, why not have a few instructor examiner type people whose job is travel around to dive sites and offer divers some incentive to take a quick test. If the diver is found to completely fail, then it's a demerit on the Instructor license of whoever certified them. Enough demerits and you have to go through Instructor remediation. Enough more and you lose your Instructor license. Obviously, done with some intelligence. You wouldn't want to ding an instructor for a student that trained 5 years ago and has done nothing since, and now it turns out they are a bad diver. That's not (necessarily) the instructor's fault. Anyway, it seems like maybe the WRSTC should be doing this, so they can ding anyone that is part of any agency that is accredited by them.

 

[TSandM]

Stuart, how does a shop provide a cheap class? There's a limit to the amount of money a shop can lose, even if they consider the OW classes a loss leader. To offer a really cheap class, the shop HAS to cut costs somewhere. So what do they do? They really can't (at least in our area they can't) pay instructors any less than they already do, because it's such a ridiculous pittance to begin with that it sometimes won't even cover the instructors expenses to teach. They can reduce the maintenance on their equipment, which means students will be dealing with malfunctioning gear. They can hugely cut costs by cutting back on pool time, and rushing through the required confined water skills in the absolute minimum time possible, and I know that the low cost classes do that.

The reality is that, to offer a quality diving class with adequate confined water time for the student to become facile with the basics of diving -- which are NOT sitting on the bottom flooding a mask, but managing buoyancy, trim, and position, and maintaining some situational awareness -- and to do so with quality instructors and well-maintained gear, you cannot do it at bargain basement prices.

 

[dmaziuk]

The woman in the photo is trained so well she doesn't even need a regulator.

Oh, nice one.

No one who offers $99 scuba courses does so because they want to create better divers. They do so because the planet is overpopulated.

 

[RJP]

You know, some businesses DO operate on the principle that starting a customer off as cheap as possible will bring them into the fold and good customer service will keep them there.

Training a customer to be "as cheap as possible" is NEVER a good business strategy.^*

What happens once they're in the fold? They jump ship the minute they find your goods and services cheaper someplace else.




^*Unless you're in an ultra-high volume marketplace where your business model is based on making a few pennies on each of a few billion transactions. Think WalMart, generic pharmaceuticals, etc

 

[stuartv]

Stuart, how does a shop provide a cheap class? There's a limit to the amount of money a shop can lose, even if they consider the OW classes a loss leader. To offer a really cheap class, the shop HAS to cut costs somewhere.

I have been in business for myself since 1999 (and making a decent to great living, all the while). I understand how business works.

And I'm not saying every shop CAN offer a $99 class that is decent. But, I am saying that I suspect, when you're talking about a $99 class that has been described as actually having extra required costs so the student ends up paying, say $250, there ARE shops that do manage to offer a $99 class and still provide decent instruction.

The shop I trained through had 2 pool sessions as standard. Each one was 8am to as late as 1pm, if needed. A couple of students needed more pool time and they got it. No extra charge or anything. And I already posted, I think my class was a bargain basement price. Provide your own mask, fins, snorkel, and boots, and everything else was covered by $300, including the quarry passes needed for the OW dives.

I don't know, but I have a suspicion that the shop got a lot of the DM/AIs that helped for free. Probably because those people wanted the experience towards an Instructor cert. And maybe also in exchange for perks. But, I don't know. Maybe they also got paid something.

Anyway, my point is (again) simply that I think it is possible for at least some shops to offer a quality $99* class. So, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, so to speak.

*where it's understood that the $99 does not include some of the extras that are actually required, like possibly paying extra for books or being required to buy the basic gear from the shop, or whatever.

 

[ams511]

Simple google search and math. Find household income, find number of households... do the gazintas.

You are the person that said for every $200,000 household in a high cost area there are two in a low cost area. So you should have this info at your fingertips, not ask me to Google it. You made the statement so back it up. You can quibble all you want but if there are so many affluent people out there with money to spend on scuba then why are people saying the industry is in decline?

 

[tomfcrist]

While I agree in the primacy of neutral buoyancy I'm not certain that students need to be "forced" to dive neutral and in proper trim. At least not in the typical meaning of the word "forced."

One of the most formative experiences in my diving "career" was my own Open Water class, wherein I was simply never shown anything OTHER than neutral buoyancy and horizontal trim when we were in water too deep to stand. I was never told it was "hard" or "uncommon" or "difficult" much less that I was being "forced" to dive that way.

When we did our very first descent in the pool I was told "We're going to swim out to the deep end, let the air out of our BCD and descend half way to the bottom..." and that's where we did skills.

But since I had no idea that was impossible... I just went ahead and did it.

I think you'll find that most students will do the same. Assuming anything else sells their ability - or yours - short.

I like Harry Averill's take on it: "Bouyancy control is not a skill... it's a habit."

Very true. If you as an instructor posses good trim and bouyancy, and teach your classes as if that is the standard(which it is), your students will naturally try to emulate your skill set. I'm not saying that all of them will be perfect, but the seed will be planted. During OW classes I don't really teach the frog kick or level trim other than a brief talk during the Classroom portion, but a hefty percentage of my students are emulating my body position and movements within 30 minutes during the pool sessions.

I even have my DM run a gopro during the first pool session while we are just swimming around in teams. You would be amazed how well students can self critique when I play the edited version on night 2.

 

[ams511]

Training a customer to be "as cheap as possible" is NEVER a good business strategy

Well the razor companies used to sell the razor cheap and then make their money on the blades. Kodak and Polaroid used to make money by selling the camera cheap and making it up on the film. While Kodak and Polaroid have both gone bankrupt, this was more do to changing technology and competition than a weakness in their business model. However, the key to this strategy is to lock the customer in to purchasing high-margin propriety products on a regular basis. Not sure how or if it could work in scuba.

 

[RJP]

Anyway, my point is (again) simply that I think it is possible for at least some shops to offer a quality $99* class.

Hard to imagine if you do some simple back of the envelope math.

Let's assume 6 students in pool and OW, for a typical size class. That's $594.

Lets further assume the following
Instructor time
12hrs in pool
16hrs for OW weekend
4hrs prep, transit, admin

Assistant time (need 2 in OW if you're not going leave students unattended)
16hrs x 2
2hrs prep, transit, admin x2

Admin time
2hrs (registering students, paperwork, processing card, etc)

So on a rate per man/hour scale you're looking at $8.48 cents per hour. In NJ that's 10cts higher than minimum wage.

Of course let's keep it simple and assume that the instruction staff makes all the money and the shop doesn't make ANYTHING on the class.

Let's further assume that instructional staff don't pay ~$700 year for insurance, they don't pay ~$200 for annual agency dues, that they didn't pay ~$3,000 or more to become an instructor, that gas fills are free from a frictionless compressor that needs no maintenance and runs on free solar power, that all their gear was free, and that they all drive magical cars that run on perpetual motion.

Let then assume that all students bought $200 worth of snorkel gear from the shop. That's $1200 gross, probably $600 net.

So we've got a business that has invested nearly two full weeks of man hours for a return of $600.

Of course that's $600 gross... unless you want to assume that the business has no rent, insurance, taxes, inventory carrying costs, electric bills, insurance, agency fees, maintenance, and other costs.

However you want to do the math, the long-story-short version is that in even the most mythical unicorns-and-leprechauns world... a $99 OW class MUST be conducted by someone who's time is not economically valuable enough to be better spent working at McDonalds for $10/hr.

Or they just love doing non-profit pro-bono dive training. Either way it's not a sustainable business proposition.

 

[ams511]

4% of US households have a total annual HHI >$200,000. That's approximately 5 million households.

You should be making a mint there in New Jersey. According to CNBC the amount of households there over $200,000 is 7.5%.