The $99 scuba course question

[Akimbo]

The $99 price is a direct reflection of the shop's inability to justify to the customer that their course is worth more. Too many dive shops have become order takers and wonder why people buy over the Internet. Could it be that they don't add any value???

 

[RJP]

However, how much would it cost to properly train and outfit with new equipment the family of five in the photo? Probably close to $10,000. Not many families have that kind of money to spend on a hobby.

That's actually not completely true. As a percentage of the US population, pretty small. As an absolute number... pretty large.

4% of US households have a total annual HHI >$200,000. That's approximately 5 million households.

 

[ams511]

That's actually not completely true. As a percentage of the US population, pretty small. As an absolute number... pretty large.

4% of US households have a total annual HHI >$200,000. That's approximately 5 million households.

You are only looking at income not expenses. A friend of mine made $200,000 in Palo Alto (he worked for Stanford) and between taxes, the high cost of living, private schools, car payments, etc. He was just getting buy. He could not even afford a home because a "fixer-upper" started at around $2 million.

 

[spoolin01]

Dang, I wish I could have gotten my OW cert in a $99 class. It amounted to only a little more than simply the cost of entry to learning by doing. For me the basics were enough for round one. That seems to hold for the novice divers I come across as well - the majority appear to enjoy the sport, even those with crude skills. Would they all be diving if the OW pitch had been a claim they'd be a lot better, but at twice the price? Would there be even more of them?

If you need or want $500 worth of coaching, by all means get it, and no doubt there are instructors who can command that kind of fee. Lucky for their students... Surely there's also a large contingent of prospects who'd just like to get on with practicing on their own, and appreciate not overpaying for the instruction they're likely to get. It's not rocket science (for everyone).

 

[RJP]

You are only looking at income not expenses. A friend of mine made $200,000 in Palo Alto (he worked for Stanford) and between taxes, the high cost of living, private schools, car payments, etc. He was just getting buy. He could not even afford a home because a "fixer-upper" started at around $2 million.

And for everyone of those families in the US there's two making $100,000 in a location where that's a fortune.

 

[beanojones]

Dang, I wish I could have gotten my OW cert in a $99 class. It amounted to only a little more than simply the cost of entry to learning by doing. For me the basics were enough for round one. That seems to hold for the novice divers I come across as well - the majority appear to enjoy the sport, even those with crude skills. Would they all be diving if the OW pitch had been a claim they'd be a lot better, but at twice the price? Would there be even more of them?

If you need or want $500 worth of coaching, by all means get it, and no doubt there are instructors who can command that kind of fee. Lucky for their students... Surely there's also a large contingent of prospects who'd just like to get on with practicing on their own, and appreciate not overpaying for the instruction they're likely to get. It's not rocket science (for everyone).

All real questions here:

I wonder, is it even possible to learn to dive effectively when the foundation is weak, or more correctly non-existent?

Do you think divers can learn neutral buoyancy by themselves? Or even come to any idea of what that is?

I ask because unless divers are absolutely forced to be neutrally buoyant (at all levels from Open Water Students, to Dive Instructors) they end up diving negative. It's fighting all previous experience as a human being to swim in trim neutrally buoyant.

Unless you are forced to do so by your OW instructor (and very, very, very, very few are, largely because very few instructors understand neutral buoyancy), it seems that the diver will never even understand the idea of neutral buoyancy, let alone be able to use it to move underwater.

IME, there is only way course that matters: Open Water. Everything else is just frosting on that cake. (Or at least if the OW is taught a certain way.)

 

[RJP]

While I agree in the primacy of neutral buoyancy I'm not certain that students need to be "forced" to dive neutral and in proper trim. At least not in the typical meaning of the word "forced."

One of the most formative experiences in my diving "career" was my own Open Water class, wherein I was simply never shown anything OTHER than neutral buoyancy and horizontal trim when we were in water too deep to stand. I was never told it was "hard" or "uncommon" or "difficult" much less that I was being "forced" to dive that way.

When we did our very first descent in the pool I was told "We're going to swim out to the deep end, let the air out of our BCD and descend half way to the bottom..." and that's where we did skills.

But since I had no idea that was impossible... I just went ahead and did it.

I think you'll find that most students will do the same. Assuming anything else sells their ability - or yours - short.

I like Harry Averill's take on it: "Bouyancy control is not a skill... it's a habit."

 

[sheeper]

I like "Bouyancy control is not a skill... it's a habit." I may start using that line.

What I see is that many instructors "sell" the neutral thing by telling students that it is what makes them a good diver.

But I focus on more than that. I am fortunate to take divers to the Blue Heron Bridge. I tell my students that lots of "stuff" lives on the bottom. That the bottom is part of a fragile ecosystem. That being a bottom layer destroys the habitat and can stress or kill fragile life. So I see my students really focused on good neutral buoyancy control. Teaching them is one thing....getting them to actually understand is where the magic happens.

 

[ams511]

And for everyone of those families in the US there's two making $100,000 in a location where that's a fortune.

Where is your demographic data to back this up? Usually when I see data as to which counties are more affluent the cost of living tends to be high. I am not sure where you live in New Jersey but most places I have seen the cost of living is above average. The other problem is that people making over $100,000 a year may not have the time to take off and travel to a dive site, they are too busy working.

 

[RJP]

Where is your demographic data to back this up?

Simple google search and math. Find household income, find number of households... do the gazintas.