Tipping on a liveaboard

[Rhodesaz]

WOW, I must be a cheapo.

In Feb 2009 we flew to Australia and did a 7 day live aboard. It cost us $3,695, plus a $500 fuel surcharge. That comes out to just under $600 per day per person.
If you subtract a descent hotel room ($150) and say 3 meals at $50 per, that leaves $300 per day for diving and laying on deck.

If we gave a 20% tip based on the total cost, it would be $839 per person.
That's a lotta dough!!! On top of a lotta dough just to sale with them.

Granted the diving was greater then great. The staff was great also. But the pressure by the trip director (on the last day) to give a tip was beyond a normal sales pitch. It was down right "in your face".

I'm not so sure that the employees on the AU boat were that under paid to begin with. But I don't know for certain!!

Anyways, doesn't matter. It was a trip of a life time which I may never be able to afford again.

 

[Primalchrome]

20% if you feel the crew did a great job. It's fair compensation and recognition for 16 hour a day smiles putting up with a lot of BS while waiting on you hand and foot.

 

[Hutch12]

As a Brit living in Hong Kong (where 10% is automatically added to every bill) so accustomed to international culture and practices, there is one thing that I think is constantly overlooked.

When people try to justify tipping as paying for the service ( any service be it restaurant, hotel, diving), do people forget that they paid for the service when they paid the operator? The price for a dive should be and is inclusive of the tank, equipment, use of boat and staff.

The staff that you are tipping are employees of the operator and are paid by them as such. Yes, I know that there will be some people that come back and say that the staff are paid poorly but quite often the pay is relevant to the local cost of living, not to the cost of living in the USA. Also, if the staff are underpaid, is that not the responsibility of the operator, not the customer, to be corrected?

Let me be clear, when I receive what I consider to be good service, I will leave a tip, however, that is at my discretion, and not based on some standardized "accepted" calculation, who on earth came up with the whole x amount of dollars per tank thing anyway?

I may be wrong, and cannot speak for an entire continent, but think this is a fair reflection of the majority of European travelers views.

When we talk about respecting other people's views and standards, I often feel that European travelers are made to feel tight fisted as the American norm has been forced on to others world wide.

When Americans choose to apply their own tipping cultures overseas, they should consider the wider effect it has on other traveler's from cultures where tipping is not so much expected but more given as a gesture of thanks for out standing service.

To be out right asked, as I have done without prior warning at the end of a LOB, for $500 tip comes as a shock to most travelers not accustomed to this. Particularly when you have paid $5000 for a weeks diving, food and accommodation anyway. Yes I know, this is only 10%, but remember, my original point, it is not my responsibility to pay the wages of the staff of the operator I choose to dive with.

Interested in others' thoughts on this and if anyone else agrees.

 

[Wookie]

As a Brit living in Hong Kong (where 10% is automatically added to every bill) so accustomed to international culture and practices, there is one thing that I think is constantly overlooked.

When people try to justify tipping as paying for the service ( any service be it restaurant, hotel, diving), do people forget that they paid for the service when they paid the operator? The price for a dive should be and is inclusive of the tank, equipment, use of boat and staff.

The staff that you are tipping are employees of the operator and are paid by them as such. Yes, I know that there will be some people that come back and say that the staff are paid poorly but quite often the pay is relevant to the local cost of living, not to the cost of living in the USA. Also, if the staff are underpaid, is that not the responsibility of the operator, not the customer, to be corrected?

Let me be clear, when I receive what I consider to be good service, I will leave a tip, however, that is at my discretion, and not based on some standardized "accepted" calculation, who on earth came up with the whole x amount of dollars per tank thing anyway?

I may be wrong, and cannot speak for an entire continent, but think this is a fair reflection of the majority of European travelers views.

When we talk about respecting other people's views and standards, I often feel that European travelers are made to feel tight fisted as the American norm has been forced on to others world wide.

When Americans choose to apply their own tipping cultures overseas, they should consider the wider effect it has on other traveler's from cultures where tipping is not so much expected but more given as a gesture of thanks for out standing service.

To be out right asked, as I have done without prior warning at the end of a LOB, for $500 tip comes as a shock to most travelers not accustomed to this. Particularly when you have paid $5000 for a weeks diving, food and accommodation anyway. Yes I know, this is only 10%, but remember, my original point, it is not my responsibility to pay the wages of the staff of the operator I choose to dive with.

Interested in others' thoughts on this and if anyone else agrees.

What you have said here is exactly right, a tip is never required, expected, and you should never be made to feel uncomfortable at the end of a trip. A gratuity is a nice thank you at the end of a trip for making the trip more enjoyable. As I have said many times, a nice heartfelt thank you gives us a way better feeling than a basket full of cash.

However - A basketful of cash is way easier and less personal than a heartfelt thank you for most Americans. It takes little to no effort to whack another $5-$600 bucks on the credit card at the end of a trip than to write a note, trip review, or even a hearty handshake at the end of the cruise. With that in mind, the person in charge of receiving and distributing the tips (me, in the case of my boat) will be asked by every individual American on the charter what is appropriate. A final captain's or pursers briefing before disembarking is essential to managing the guest's expectations, letting them know docking and disembarkation procedures, and also letting those interested in tipping what the recommended tip is. It should not be considered begging, asking for a handout, or shocking to those who don't tip culturally, it should be considered a piece of information for the guest, nothing more, nothing less. Whether or not to tip is completely up to the guest.

 

[highdesert]

Fuel surchrges are all the rage now in the liveaboard industry. Some may be warranted, others not so much. But on a long trip, in the 10-12 day range, fuel is a whopping part of the cost nonetheless. And I personally struggle with the idea of tipping to fill the tank. Fuel has nothing to do with anyone who performs any kind of duty or service on the boat, and the service, good or otherwise, is what tipping is about, isn't it?

 

[BDSC]

Fuel surchrges are all the rage now in the liveaboard industry.

That reminds me of taking you car in for service/work and they want to add on a charge for "shop supplies".

 

[ams511]

As a Brit living in Hong Kong (where 10% is automatically added to every bill) so accustomed to international culture and practices, there is one thing that I think is constantly overlooked.

When people try to justify tipping as paying for the service ( any service be it restaurant, hotel, diving), do people forget that they paid for the service when they paid the operator? The price for a dive should be and is inclusive of the tank, equipment, use of boat and staff.

The staff that you are tipping are employees of the operator and are paid by them as such. Yes, I know that there will be some people that come back and say that the staff are paid poorly but quite often the pay is relevant to the local cost of living, not to the cost of living in the USA. Also, if the staff are underpaid, is that not the responsibility of the operator, not the customer, to be corrected?

Let me be clear, when I receive what I consider to be good service, I will leave a tip, however, that is at my discretion, and not based on some standardized "accepted" calculation, who on earth came up with the whole x amount of dollars per tank thing anyway?

I may be wrong, and cannot speak for an entire continent, but think this is a fair reflection of the majority of European travelers views.

When we talk about respecting other people's views and standards, I often feel that European travelers are made to feel tight fisted as the American norm has been forced on to others world wide.

When Americans choose to apply their own tipping cultures overseas, they should consider the wider effect it has on other traveler's from cultures where tipping is not so much expected but more given as a gesture of thanks for out standing service.

To be out right asked, as I have done without prior warning at the end of a LOB, for $500 tip comes as a shock to most travelers not accustomed to this. Particularly when you have paid $5000 for a weeks diving, food and accommodation anyway. Yes I know, this is only 10%, but remember, my original point, it is not my responsibility to pay the wages of the staff of the operator I choose to dive with.

Interested in others' thoughts on this and if anyone else agrees.

A few things: Staff are never underpaid. A employee's wages are determined by market conditions, if the dive op is cheap they can work for another one. What tipping is doing is shifting the labor expense from the operator to the client.

As a American I would be shocked at someone suggesting a $500 tip at the end of the trip. Do people leave $500 tips at the end of a Carnival Cruise? I don't think so.

As an American I feel strange not tipping when abroad. Please don't think tipping is some American conspiracy. I also feel weird tipping dollar coins when I am in Canada. In the US we use dollar bills.

---------- Post added November 13th, 2013 at 06:20 AM ----------

What you have said here is exactly right, a tip is never required, expected, and you should never be made to feel uncomfortable at the end of a trip. A gratuity is a nice thank you at the end of a trip for making the trip more enjoyable. As I have said many times, a nice heartfelt thank you gives us a way better feeling than a basket full of cash.

However - A basketful of cash is way easier and less personal than a heartfelt thank you for most Americans. It takes little to no effort to whack another $5-$600 bucks on the credit card at the end of a trip than to write a note, trip review, or even a hearty handshake at the end of the cruise. With that in mind, the person in charge of receiving and distributing the tips (me, in the case of my boat) will be asked by every individual American on the charter what is appropriate. A final captain's or pursers briefing before disembarking is essential to managing the guest's expectations, letting them know docking and disembarkation procedures, and also letting those interested in tipping what the recommended tip is. It should not be considered begging, asking for a handout, or shocking to those who don't tip culturally, it should be considered a piece of information for the guest, nothing more, nothing less. Whether or not to tip is completely up to the guest.

:rofl2: A "heartfelt thank you" is not going pay your employee's bills. I am sure if I said Captain Frank says you would prefer a thank you to cash you would have a mutiny on your hands.

If a tip is something extra for making the trip more enjoyable then why should their be a "recommended" amount. Also aren't employees supposed to be nice to customers anyway? You discuss a tip to remind customers to pay one. If a tip is not expected then you would say so. Please no tipping your thanks and repeat business is enough.

How many customers are there per employee? 2, 3, or more? So does a crew member makes an additional $1,500 or so per week? Do you backup withhold for taxes?

 

[Lorenzoid]

As a Brit living in Hong Kong (where 10% is automatically added to every bill) so accustomed to international culture and practices, there is one thing that I think is constantly overlooked.
. . .
Interested in others' thoughts on this and if anyone else agrees.

Oh please. An international point of view. Hmmph. This is a US-centric board. Americans should tip abroad the same way we tip in America.

I tend to size up the composition of my fellow divers. If they are mostly Americans, I am more inclined to tip like an American. (As a footnote, my wife comes from a European non-tipping country, and so the tip is always a point of discussion for us when we're abroad.) If the LOB is based out of, oh I dunno, say Key West, I will tip like an American. Bahamas, Caribbean, etc.--probably all within the sphere of American divers as far as tipping.

Another thing that's often overlooked is that in the US, the custom of tipping is most closely associated with restaurants and similar service industries in which it is actually legal to pay certain people whom the taxing authorities categorize as "tipped employees" less than the legal minimum wage for non-tipped employees, on the theory that their tips will make up the difference (and if they don't, the employer is obligated to make up the difference, though in reality that does not always happen). For many such employees in the US, the tip really IS part of their normal compensation. The ARE "underpaid"--legally and willingly. You DO need to leave a tip that falls within a fairly defined range of 15-20%. If you receive poor service, I think the best thing to do is to complain to the server's manager but leave a normal tip. If you receive great service, feel free to leave a larger tip. But this mainly applies to the US restaurant industry and other industries with so-called "tipped employees."

 

[ams511]

Before the recession, I remember reading an article about high-end restaurants in NYC where, because of tips, the servers were actually making more money than the kitchen staff. So the restaurants started implementing a kitchen charge for the kitchen help. Where exactly does this end. Why do I to tip $5 a tank on a boat but not to the person in the dive shop? Assuming I have a pleasant fight should I tip the cabin attendants and the flight crew? We tip in restaurants because the people make less than minimum wage. Sorry if they suck then no tip.

 

[RJP]

What tipping is doing is shifting the labor expense from the operator to the client.

Um, just so you know... the customer always pays for labor expenses. For every product or service they buy. Buy a gallon of milk? Part of what you spent pays the labor expenses of the farmer, the labor expenses of the guy who drove the truck to the store, the labor expenses of the guy who put it on the shelf, and the labor expenses of the cashier.

Whether built into the initial charge up front, or in the form of a gratuity, money that comes out of the passenger's pocket is going to pay the labor expenses of the crew. Or are you of naive belief that if tipping stopped tomorrow the cost of a liveaboard trip or day charter would not go up commensurately? (Economic reality is that your actual cost would probably go up significantly more than the amount of a typical gratuity.)