Transpac II

[Dryglove]

I will apologise for my part of getting this thread off track and insults on my part. I should know better by now than try to get a straight answer out of leadweight.

The original question posted was "Is the Transpak 2 a good deal for a winged BCD?"

My answer to that question is yes or no depending on your diving enviroment. If you dive mostly colder water and wear a drysuit or a thick wetsuit and have to wear a heavy weightbelt i would say no its not a good deal as a BP is better suited.

My reasoning why a BP is better suited for coldwater

Choice of several different weight BP's meaning less weight on your belt

Ability to add a channel weight. No need for adding weights to tank bands

extremely solid set up with no weak links

one piece harness with nothing to come loose

streamlined

no padding, so no uneeded positive buoyancy

can store lift bag(s) under backside of BP

Works great as a warm water bc eliminating the need for several bc's

Very compact for packing

works great with doubles or singles

nice snug fit


My dislikes of the transpac for coldwater

bunch of unneeded padding means you need more weight.The padding would probably be a plus for warm water divers.

adjustable harness that always seem to come loose during a dive somehow. I also had the same problem with my knighthawk.There is really no need for an adjustable harness.

All of your weight must be worn on a belt or strapped to the tank bands.

it just doesnt have the same snug fit as bp with the 5 point harness which is a biggie for me.


Leadweight has made it very well known that he is a warmwater diver only. I dont know his reasoning for not wanting to dive anything else, maybe he would like to expand on that. I personally find almost any water enjoyable to dive in as long as it isnt heavily polluted.....yuk.

Leadweight has made a claim that BP's dont cut it with single tanks. I would like to hear his opinion on why he feels bp's dont cut it with single tanks and quit avoiding the question.


As for myself i strive to dive two weekends a month wether it be in cold ocean waters of CA or the local warm water murky lakes which is why i chose a BP as the best overall BC for me. I feel that the transpac would be a great warm water single tank diving rig but i would still choose a bp even for warm water.

Once again these are my opinions and apologise for the insults on my part. Heck i might even buy leadweight a beer after all this

 

[leadweight]

lal7176 once bubbled...

Once again these are my opinions and apologise for the insults on my part. Heck i might even buy leadweight a beer after all this

I'll drink to that.

To anyone who feels that I have insulted them or their gear, I apologize also.

Ease up lal7176, the main thing that matters is that you are happy with your gear and enjoy your diving.

 

[DADDY BIG-GULP]

I'm a scuba newbie too... I have enjoyed the many threads this SCUBABOARD has to offer. Personally, I enjoy the "IMHO" and the "from my own personal experience(s)" comments that many peeps share with others. I totally dislike the pointing of sour fingers at each other with the insisting attitude they thier way is the only way or you flamed me so I'll flame you.

I did not come here to read that kinda crap, as I don't learn anything about scuba, but rather, I learn who has their panties in a bundle and who hates who..... Take it else where!


After reading the posts in this thread and summing it all up according to what I think I know... (as I very interesting in the PRO's and CON's of a TPII and BP/Wings) I think what is being said here is.....

- a TPII is better suited for warm water and is limited for coldwater... and this is all due to having to wear a heaver weight belt and possiblitly of QD's get broken??

- a BP/WINGS is better suited for both; warm and cold water?... is this because the weight is all an intergral part of the equipment thus making the need to more wiehgt around your waste reduced??

Hmmmmmmmmm decisions decisions decisions....

 

[Dryglove]

Your about a day late and dollar short. If you read a few posts above the issue has been mostly resolved and is a dead issue as far as im concerned. Thanks for your concern though.

The BP vs Transpac issue is like politics.Republican vs democrat. Im a republican by the way and think democrats are bad evil people....just kidding!!

A TPII is suitable for coldwater but in my opinion not as suitable as a BP due to the fact the weight is distributed much better through a steel bp and an addition of a channel weight or v-weight for doubles.

My set up is a 9lb BP with a 8lb channel weight with a 2lb 2 pc STA. With my drysuit it allows me to wear a comfy 6lb weight belt instead of a 25lb weightbelt. It makes a huge difference having some of that weight distributed over your back.

I dont know if leadweight has any experience diving a TPII in coldwater. If he has maybe he would like to share his experiences as far as wearing a heavy weightbelt or distributing his weights and how his trim was in the water. I personally hate heavy weightbelts as they tend to make me feet heavy and are uncomfortable on the surface.

My buddy used a TPII for a while and sold it for a bp and was much happier for cold water diving.

DADDY BIG-GULP once bubbled...

I did not come here to read that kinda crap, as I don't learn anything about scuba, but rather, I learn who has their panties in a bundle and who hates who..... Take it else where!


- a TPII is better suited for warm water and is limited for coldwater... and this is all due to having to wear a heaver weight belt and possiblitly of QD's get broken??

- a BP/WINGS is better suited for both; warm and cold water?... is this because the weight is all an intergral part of the equipment thus making the need to more wiehgt around your waste reduced??

Hmmmmmmmmm decisions decisions decisions....

 

[leadweight]

Actually, I don't have occasion to dive cold water. Its more location than anything else. If I lived near some good cold water diving, I would probably do some. It would be an exageration to say that there is not any nice cold water diving available around here, it is just nothing like the Pacific coast. There are some trips out to the Flower Gardens in the winter. The water is about 65 or 68 degrees. Some of the other Texans like Dee could chime in on this.

Anyway, Houston has lots of direct flights to warm water locations and that is what I choose to do.

In warm water I keep between 2 and 4 pounds of weight threaded directly onto the top tank band of the TP2. I have a pair of Halcyon trim pockets on the belt which I use as limited capacity integrated weight pockets with a 5 pound per side capacity. On my last trip to Roatan I had a 2 pound weight on each side of the top cam band and a 2 pound weight in each weight pocket. That kept me nice and balanced in a 3/2 shortie and my signature blue beanie with a standard aluminum 80 tank that is 4.5 pounds bouyant when empty. The divemaster on the boat dove in a worn out 3/2 full suit with a worn out Sherwood jacket and no weight at all.

Last Saturday in a murky fresh water lake I had 3 pounds on my top tank band and no other weight with a well worn 3 mil full suit. I probably could have made it with 2 pounds total.

Other users of the TP2 have told me of various strategies to move weight around for cold water use. Dive Rite makes some trim weights that attach to the small d-rings on the back of the TP2 harness and the waistbelt. These trim weights are 4 pounds each. Additionally, there are integrated weight pockets for the TP2 which hold up to 16 pounds each.

At least with the hinged cam bands that I am using, the trick of directly threading weights onto the cam bands may be limited to those using 7" diameter tanks. Of course, trim pockets could be used with 8" diameter tanks.

It is not for me to say which combination will work right for a given diver. Balancing one's Rig varies greatly with the individual, BC used, tank choice and exposure suit. Some divers can handle a great deal of weight on their back that would cause others to turn turtle. I can't get by without moving weight up near my head, others must use ankle weights even with minimal exposure protection.

 

[Albion]

apologies if my post offended some of you, although i didnt think it was that blue.

to answer mverick
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Actually if 90% of the Novices you know can't handle a back inflate BC. The training there is horrible. A back inflate isn't unmanagable if trained on it. If thrown into it afterwards you'd have a relearning curve. Where better then in your first class to get associated with one. They aren't for everyone. But It's not 90%.
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Corect but not entirely, I am yet to see a dive shop in this region with a back inflate for rental., everyone has jackets


quote:
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Back inflate isn't only for Twins. Neither Transpak 2, Ranger, BP/W.
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no but it is one reason, with twins the weight is heavier and offsets the head forward action, this can be solved by correct weighting if they know what they are doing of course (IF)


quote:
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Bust one of those releases on the boat and jump in. How is the diver gonna deal with that. Since he's a novice. Better if he has trouble and needs help getting it off then on. Then a release isn't attached right, or breaks. I have both Transpack 2 and BP/W. And giving a novice to much to mess with isn't a good thing. And I've seen the plastic buckles break on a boat alot.

And I don't need a list. It seems you're talking about stuff you're unfamiliar with. Talk about what you know.
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never seen a plastic buckle break ever, but then i have rarely seen divers with twins, talk about what you know, i am?????


quote:
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You're right, some people who aren't trained on a back inflate may have a problem with it. If that's what you were trained with. The instructor wouldn't pass you till you're comfortable in the water now would he.

Heck, I've seen women in class that wouldn't let go of the ladder in the pool. And thought they were diving... Shallow end.... They actually became good divers. But it took alot of pool time. And the instructor didn't pass them till they were comfortable.
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i've seen a girl with a c card who couldnt swim, now give her a back inflate and see what happens!!! yes if they were trained on back inflates, but welcome to asia, the dive shops have std BCD's and thats about it.


quote:
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Without the releases it's one less failure point for a novice to have to deal with... And on set up. If you took your training with it. You'd know how to set it up... It's easy once shown... And what better place then you're open water class...

Jackets are good for positioning for photography. Although I can get into position. It's more convenient in a jacket. And on the surface you can blow them up till they squeeze you to much. Which a back inflate won't do by the way. But saying people can't be trained in one or the other isn't accurate.

If you train in one you'll be fine in one. Please talk about what you know to new divers. It's fine if you're asking a question. But telling people how things work that you don't use. Doesn't help them. It just confuses them.
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IF you took your trianing with it, yes n/p, i didnt say can't be trained, as explained above I am yet to see a back inflate BCD (let alone TPII or B/P) used for rental purposes / instruction in the general dive shops in this region. I know of some places (such as the local Halycon / Dive rite dealers) who probably do. But for 90% of the new divers in this region they will be taught on a standard jacket BCD, and taking thme from that environment and putting on a back inflate is not going to be pretty.

 

[Mverick]

Albion,

Not trying to be mean. But have you ever used a back-inflate? Transpack 2 or a Backplate and wing with a single tank?

If you buy one in a shop here they will get in the pool and help you try it. If you buy one for your class you can train on it. Even if you didn't buy it from the shop. At least some shops. Some want you to buy everything from them.

And I've seen plastic buckles break on a dive boat on Jacket BC's and Transpack. 4-5 of them where when someone set a tank on it. It didn't have duals on it. Seen them come unclipped underwater. But I think they were broke on the boat ride.

If diving with duals you usually have on a dry suit. But not always. But I do..

And even if 100% of the divers were trained on a jacket. I don't think 90% would have a problem. At least in my area they don't.

You were suggesting a Transpack from your statements. Now seems like you've swapped to suggesting a Jacket...

 

[Albion]

Mverick

for the last 6 years i have used a jacket, (oceanic probe kevlar) the only reason i didnt use anything else until now was that this worked ok for me and i didnt want to replace something that wasnt broke. It is now showing signs of age so this year i switched to a transpac II with travel wing. I have friends with B/P (halcyon) and had also tried on TPII. I based my choice on the type of diving i do and which was more comforatable to me. The TPII was more practical at the end of the day, some of my diving involves traveling on small aircraft where weight is at a premium, and I didnt see the point of taking my weight (B/P) with me. An aluminium backplate may have reduced this and the drying of equipment also figered into my evaluation. Yes i like wings, wished i had changed sooner.

If i had been aware of B/P / TPII when i purchased my orignal BCD i may have gone that route from day one, however looking at the type of novice divers that i see this can be too much for them, and there is not the time or the resources to train them with equipment of this type (unfortuntely). This is not my opinion but fact. Some people learn to dive because that is something that motivates them and once trained will dive at least once a month if not more, some on the other hand learn to dive then maybe only dive occasionally, why spend the extra time training them with b/p or other back inflate designs, if a jacket BCD is adequate for their purposes, spend the extra time getting the basic training right. In any case if they did invest in thier own equipment they would probably buy a basic setup. I don't wish to appear to be negative about this but the fact of the matter is that for some people learning to dive is stressful enough, why put extra work on them.

 

[leadweight]

Frankly, I believe one of the real advantages that a TP2 has over a Hog rigged BP is the adjustable harness and slide fasteners.

After many dives on many dive boats I have yet to see a slide fastener break. I suspect that there may be a demo broken slide fastener that gets shown around by some instructors interested in making a point. Perhaps they have some termite infested wood they also carry around.

The term "failure point" is nothing more than the language of fear. At least one member of this board reported that in a technical diving class he was instructed to release one slide fastener and swim around. He said he was able to do that without any trouble.

On the other hand, the lack of these fasteners can make getting out of the rig in choppy water behind a boat to be seriously difficult and can be a real complication in a rescue. Cut the continuous harness, fine. It is just another problem that has to be solved when there is no time to mess around. One very skilled technical diver that had trained under Tom Mount himself told me that the continuous harness was strictly a cave diving setup becuause gear would be stripped from an injured cave diver after the diver was brought to shore at the cave exit. He opined it would be too difficult to remove the harness from an injured diver in open water, even by cutting. By the way this particular diver owned several BP's that he used only with doubles. For single tanks he used a Seaquest Balance for its greater comfort and convenience. This is just one of the reasons why I think BP's are not the best way to do singles. My other reasons are based on personal experience with both the BP and TP2 which has been validated by the opinions of Netdoc and Rick Murchison, both regulators of this board.

Adjustable straps means adjustable in the water. Some members of this board claim they were able to adjust their first BP in only a few minutes. To that I must say they were either talented or lucky. Let me put it this way. The BP needs to be adjusted in a shore diving enviornment where repeated entries and exits to the water can be done with minimal stress. If you don't have it right it must be removed and adjusted and then try again. For the casual diver with his once a year trip to Grand Cayman or Coz, this just does not work.

As far as the cold water for BP things goes, the straps on a BP are made from stiff weight belt webbing. Without at least a 3 mil they will chafe many people. A few divers have had problems with the plate digging into their lower back. Needless to say, some divers claim to be comfortable in a BP wearing only a t-shirt. Not me.

Many members of this board recommend the BP for all divers under all conditions. The very notion that a single BC which was designed to efficiently mount manifolded doubles and further refined to meet the needs of cave divers would be the best solution for all divers is absurd on its face. The BP has to be the most oversold piece of dive gear that has ever existed.

The BP can be adapted to single tanks, but it was designed by hammering aluminum around a set of doubles. Consequently the single tank is too far away from the diver's back to have an optimum mounting. Depending on whether the tank is positively or negatively bouyant there is a leverage effect.

Finally, there is not a wide seletion of wings available to mount singles on a BP. Many divers have reported that the Pioneer series wings are easily damaged and not easily repaired due to their single layer construction.

There are further issues regarding stainless steel BP's. They may be just right for some applications and too heavy for others. No problem, just buy a few of them. GI3 says he has four. Another reson multiple BP's are required goes back to the difficulty of changing the adjustment when switching through various exposure suits. Some around here will say they can do that in minutes. Again, lucky or talented?

So, my TP2 holds my tank securely, adjusts instantly, can be removed instantly in any water conditions, has no inherent positive or negative bouyancy, will not slide around without an uncomfortable crotch strap, packs small, will not chafe my arms even withut no exposure suit and so forth.

Use the right tool for the job and don't fool yourself into thinking you have some kind of swiss army knife that can be used to build a suspension bridge.

:boom: :boom: :boom:

 

[Mverick]

Most of the slides that break are in cold enviroment. If you take a plastic trash can and fill it with snow to make a snow man. The plastic gets brittle and can crack very easily. Now they aren't made of the same plastic. But that's an easy way to break a buckle on a BC. Cold water and stress.

I've been under Ice before. Different beast though. But I have seen the buckles broke on BC's on boats when tanks are bouncin around.


And it took me a while to adjust my first backplate. But it isn't a big deal now.

But it also took me awhile to figure out the Transpack 2 when I first got it. But isn't a big deal now either...

I do dive mine in a T shirt. I leave the straps like it was for a 3mm and most of the weight on my waist belt. The straps don't rub my shoulders much. If it got to be a problem they do have pads for them. But for me it isn't a problem..


Thanks for the info from both of you. Helps me understand more problems.

I still stand by my statements. But your explanations on your opinions makes me understand yours..... And was all I was asking for.

You buyin first round. Or am I.... LOL