uncertified divers in the ocean?

[Rick Inman]

I agree that a C card doesn't mean much. It's training applied that counts. And there are more ways to get that training then by taking BOW at the LDS.

The original concept of getting scuba certified was a good one. And the intent was safety. However, classes and agencies have morphed into a different kind of machine and the BOW card doesn't really mean that much anymore.

We were talking about that at last nights dive - seeing a guy get on a boat with a notebook full of cards, but the guy not even able to hold his buoyancy and trim in the water. Someone has made a bunch of cash from this guy without him ending up with basic skills.

Sad...

 

[Walter]

so you experienced guys have seen newly certified divers that were "clueless"? Can you expand on this?

Sure. I see it all the time. Divers (with c-cards) and students on their check out dives who are over weighted, who have no concept of buoyancy control, who bounce off the bottom, who flail their arms, who bicycle kick, who panic if they get water in their mask....the examples are almost endless. These folks are not ready to leave the pool. Their incompetence is usually the result of instructors following poor standards. Dive skills are not hard to master, but most folks require much better instruction than they receive.

 

[Blackwood]

I don't see what the problem is.

People dove for decades before corporations popped up to make a buck selling books and certification cards.

The existence of a Dive Agency should not imply that being a customer of said Agency is necessary in order to Dive.

I've seen people buy Hookah units... and stay down at 80ft for 5 hours not knowing any better.

Come again?

Did they spend the better part of the day on deco? Did they even walk afterwards?

 

[Skeeter1097]

I'm in south Fl I do have friends that dove or dive that was never certified. All but one have gotten certified since thin. I had 250 dives when I tot my steel now dive buddy to dive. I have dove over a 100 times with hem. He has since gotten certified and is AOL< NITREX. You need the cards to dive the Dive boats in the Fl. They do ask, most of Them.
I have to say I think that even if you teach your self or your buddy tot you. At some time you well need the card. Ether to get on a dive boat or to get gas in the tank.In most lds here I hear them ask and if they don't now me they ask.

 

[Blackwood]

He has since gotten certified and is AOL< NITREX.

You can get nitrex certified on america online?

Wow, they're branching out!

(I tease)

 

[Hoomi]

Sure. I see it all the time. Divers (with c-cards) and students on their check out dives who are over weighted, who have no concept of buoyancy control, who bounce off the bottom, who flail their arms, who bicycle kick, who panic if they get water in their mask....the examples are almost endless. These folks are not ready to leave the pool. Their incompetence is usually the result of instructors following poor standards. Dive skills are not hard to master, but most folks require much better instruction than they receive.

We had a guy in our class that, IMNSHO, should not have been passed. He barely managed the pool swim. I think he did okay on the classroom tests, but in the pool portion, it seemed he wasn't paying attention most of the time. On numerous exercises, the instructor had to explain to him again what was required, and even then, several times he acted clueless in the water.

They rotated us around so we'd get experience with different dive buddies, and both my wife and I came to the same conclusion about this guy: We NEVER, EVER, wanted to be a dive buddy with him on a real dive. My wife was partnered with him for the shared-air exercise, and she had to pretty much do everything on both sides of the exercise. He darn near hung there like a bump on a log, didn't do his part of the communication, and had to be pulled through everything. The only reason my wife did as much as she did was concern that she'd fail the exercise if she didn't drag him through.

If he was barely managing to get through controlled exercises in the pool, I don't want to think about what he would do faced with a real open-water mishap. If he wasn't paying attention to the instructor during the pool portions of the course, how could we expect him to pay attention to pre-dive briefings from the Dive Master?

I don't know that we need "Drill Sergeant" mentality in the instructors, but I do think instructors need to move a little more away from the "nice guy, encourager" attitude and remember that a person should NOT be passed if they're not truly ready.

I never heard how he did on the OW exercises, but it would not surprise me to learn he eventually got his Cert card. Were I on a dive boat, and he my only choice for dive buddy, I'd scrub the dive. I'm still a novice myself, and I'm not qualified yet to step in for an instructor with someone who didn't pay attention in class - particularly if my life is going to depend on it.

 

[Joe Cool]

I am surprised to find out that there are a lot of divers who are uncertified and don't have any regard for their personal safety or the safety of others. I am disappointed with the divers (in general) who drag untrained divers to dive with them. Sooner or later, such irresponsible cowboy attitude will cause a lot of grief and regret. I am also disappointed at how certifying agencies have turned into a money making venture. However, I do have to admit that the basic diving courses (I have attended and passed) do contain a lot of diving-related information that any prospective diver should know before venturing into this sport. In this part of the world, there is easy and quick access to information but, sadly, a lot of people are ill-informed. This may be due to ignorance or plain stupidity or laziness.

 

[Teamcasa]

I am surprised to find out that there are a lot of divers who are uncertified and don't have any regard for their personal safety or the safety of others. I am disappointed with the divers (in general) who drag untrained divers to dive with them.

Is there an example of this? Just because a diver has not been through the PADI (or other agency) process does not necessarily make then unsafe or dive with no regard to the safety of others.

 

[Joe Cool]

Is there an example of this? Just because a diver has not been through the PADI (or other agency) process does not necessarily make then unsafe or dive with no regard to the safety of others.

Yes, I agree, but the 'unsafe' factor is greatly reduced if a newbie diver is well- informed, regardless of the learning ability of the newbie diver. In my books, an uncertified diver who refuses to learn through proper instruction does not have any respect to ones self which also equates to no respect to others.

Here's a question for you, Teamcasa: Would you like to be responsible for dragging your uncertified friend to go diving with you even if you have, in your best abiity, briefed and lectured him/her on all things scuba? I guess if you are a dive instructor, this is OK but let's assume you're not. And, if its a one time fun dive, i think its OK. The diver who started this string mentioned that the lady has been diving the Coronados uncertified. This is not a 'one time' fun dive incident but it seemed more frequent. Any self-respecting experienced certified diver will encourage a newbie diver to get certified.

 

[SailNaked]

I am not certain the structure of dive class is 100% conducive to safe diving.

You cannot fail the course (without being 80% IQ), the instructor will not get credit for teaching you. A typical skill must only be demonstrated successfully about twice, that is not mastery. Under this condition there will be unsafe divers. why is it that you read about same ocean dive buddies, in my mind that is a fail. I don&#8217;t dive with my wife that way and you will not dive with me that way (because I will stick with you no matter what). If instructors taught their students the way any of us would teach our friends or kids then these divers would not pass if they had trouble clearing their mask, held their breath, were not comfortable with the regulator knocked out of your mouth, and could not maintain buoyancy,(why is that a separate class if it is so important) or were not a good buddy and were not always in view and near enough to help in an emergency.
as far as assuming that someone that has not been certified is unsafe to you and others that is just short sighted. dont dive with them if that is your choice, but spare them your opinion.


on the other hand people are responsible for their own actions, if you pass yourself through a cert class and you are still not able to safely dive and be a buddy then get more help and practice in a pool or local pond until you can (maybe from a friend). As far as being uncertified seriously you are only as well trained as your instructor was, and that is no better than many divers friends. the skills do not require an agency to teach or learn they are simple and mastery is up to both the student and the instructor. I know some of you feel that the Agency is somehow imbued with magical powers that they cast on their instructors to pass on to only their students that pay homage, oops got confused with the church. however spirituality and diving are gained through a personal interaction with our world and can be mastered via dive friends not ordained to be instructors.

I support taking classes, at least you will have a checklist of minimum standards and you will have been shown them all and done them yourself at least once, however I also know that there are masterful divers that have never been certified it is up to the diver to protect themselves from the hazards that exist underwater.