Unified Dive Industry wants to change DEMA for the better!

[DiveNav]

....DEMA as it stands now is a tax on the industry, without adequate representation, for the benefit of a few.....

Time for a "Tea Party - Tax Revolt" ?

 

[cool_hardware52]

Time for a "Tea Party - Tax Revolt" ?

Overdue IMO

Tobin

 

[scubamarketing]

Good post. If you could tell every Pro and LDS how to increase his business on $100 a month of advertising you might just save the industry.

As far as: "So I would completely agree that we need better professionals out there, but how can you go back through certified professionals to determine who should keep their credentials and who should lose them?"

PADI already did that once in the late 70s or early 80s, so we know that it can be done, if you have the will and see the need.

I full acknowledge that I wasn't in this industry in the 70s/early 80s so I wasn't aware that was done. Having seen other dive "professionals", I sure wouldn't mind an audit of existing instructors.

I'm working on telling everyone how to market for less than $100 Practicing what I preach as well.

I wanted to know who Nick Bostic is and his background, so I found this
Nick Bostic - LinkedIn online

Being a veteran online marketer, a quick Google search will give you lots of information. I'm not yet at my 5 posts here, so I can't link just yet, but if you want to really get to know me on a more personal level, feel free to contact me via my site (if you prefer email) or facebook dot com slash nbostic or twitter dot com slash nbostic for my personal accounts.

If you don't feel like looking through all of that, here's some of the bullet points:

• Degrees in Marketing, Management, Finance and Computer Information Technology
• Have been using HTML, CSS, Javascript, MySQL, blogging, SEM/SEM, PPC/PPM, social networks and email marketing since they've existed
• Ran several successful web-based businesses on no budget as a poor college student
• Built a large/successful community college SCUBA program with a staff of 7 instructors and 10+ DM's
• Worked at the best dive shop I have yet to visit (Eugene Skin Divers Supply)
• Am a PADI Master Instrutor
• Haven't yet jumped into technical diving, but it is on my 1-2 year roadmap
• Work a day job as Director of Marketing & Technology Associate Vice President for Chicago Title, part of Fidelity National Title Group, the largest title & escrow company in the USA
• I have helped hundreds of real estate professionals go from spending thousands a month on marketing to less than $100 and seen their business increase
• I am the founder of NewSCUBAMarketing dot com which has only been around for a short time, but is generating far more interest than I could have ever expected
• I am in the process of building more large programs with my excellent staff, but in a new city
• I will open a dive center (and market it successfully for less than $100 per month)

But please, feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I firmly believe in the concept of "expanding the pie": there's more than enough business for all of us to go around and if I'm able to provide my expertise in my specific niche, I will. Hopefully you'll be willing to share your expertise if/when I call upon it as well. We're all in this together.

Ending DEMA kinda changes the politics IMO, very possibly for the better.

DEMA as it stands now is a tax on the industry, without adequate representation, for the benefit of a few.

Do you have to pay DEMA? I'm not a manufacturer and have no experience with DEMA beyond attending their shows, so I will fully plead ignorance on this one. If you don't need them and don't like what they're doing (and don't HAVE to pay them), why not just vote with your dollars and stop interacting with them? Again, this is an arena I don't have experience with, but I'm trying to learn from those who do.

 

[The Chairman]

[beg]Heck, you can market your business right HERE for $100/month and help BOTH of our revenues to increase! That's a win/win situation!!! [/beg]

 

[cool_hardware52]

Do you have to pay DEMA? I'm not a manufacturer and have no experience with DEMA beyond attending their shows, so I will fully plead ignorance on this one. If you don't need them and don't like what they're doing (and don't HAVE to pay them), why not just vote with your dollars and stop interacting with them? Again, this is an arena I don't have experience with, but I'm trying to learn from those who do.

Nick,

Is a DEMA membership mandatory to be in the "Dive Business"? Of course not.

Is a DEMA membership mandatory to exhibit at the DEMA show? No, but the cost of the booth space is discounted by amount of the dues a member pays.

For example if my annual dues is $1000, and the "non member" booth price is $4000, the DEMA member price would be $4000 - $1000 = $3000.

If you are going to exhibit at the show there's little reason not to be a member also.

If DEMA remains the "Default" show for the industry, meaning as a vendor you have the choice of either attending DEMA, or not attending any North American Dive Trade show, then it's in effect a "Tax" on the industry. One could argue that it is a voluntary tax, but it still represents marketing dollars extracted from the industry as a whole.

If these monies are spent effectively then can be a good value for the industry.

OTOH if these monies are not well spent, and if the very presence of DEMA effectively thwarts alternatives, then DEMA is just another cost with little or no return.

Tobin

 

[Thalassamania]

Where was the money spent? Is there a public accounting available? What are the staff paid? What projects where funded?

 

[Scott L]

"Good Marketing" is what got the industry into the situation that it is in. Overselling scuba to people who really did not want to do it in the first place by dropping entry requirements (e.g., standards and course commitments) so that most people who tried it out either hated it or were so damned scared that they stopped doing it.

But lots of masks, fins and snorkels, and a few sets of gear were sold, and continue to be sold, on the same basis. If the industry does not make the commitment to actually train people to be comfortable in the water, then all that the "good marketing" will accomplish is assuring a steady trickle of people into the front door who will bad mouth their experience once they hurry out the back door, having left less than a thousand dollars behind at an LDS and (perhaps) a similar sum at some sort of "destination."

It's time for an end to marketing as we have know it. Remember, if someone has a bad experience with something they tell twice as many people about it than they do if they have a good experience. The diving industry is suffering from too many bad experiences and can't, long term, marketeer its way out of that corner, especially with ossified groups like PADI sitting on top of DEMA by buying votes and preventing real change, because that might threaten their current hegemony.

I have no financial interest at stake but enjoy reading most discussions of the sport I love so much from intelligent people such as yourselves. As usual Thal is spot-on with his obversations IMO. I seem to remeber PADI advertising in the mid-eighties that scuba diving was for virtually everone including refrences and/or scenes of handcapped people rolling overboard to dive. Perhaps advertising should instead focus on a narrower target market such as to cross-over sport publications like scuba diving's main competitor snow skiing. This would seem to make better use of finite industry markeing resources and deleiver better candidates to the training agencies and LDS's and increase diver retention. Face it, scuba diving is not without risks and unnerves almost everone from time to time (myself included). I do not know if this fact is still true but for awhile Colorado had the highest diver count per capita than any other state....Truly adventurous people should receive the most attention IMO...

 

[scubamarketing]

[beg]Heck, you can market your business right HERE for $100/month and help BOTH of our revenues to increase! That's a win/win situation!!! [/beg]

I did it before I even saw your message The value is definitely there, thank you!

Nick,

Is a DEMA membership mandatory to be in the "Dive Business"? Of course not.

Is a DEMA membership mandatory to exhibit at the DEMA show? No, but the cost of the booth space is discounted by amount of the dues a member pays.

For example if my annual dues is $1000, and the "non member" booth price is $4000, the DEMA member price would be $4000 - $1000 = $3000.

If you are going to exhibit at the show there's little reason not to be a member also.

If DEMA remains the "Default" show for the industry, meaning as a vendor you have the choice of either attending DEMA, or not attending any North American Dive Trade show, then it's in effect a "Tax" on the industry. One could argue that it is a voluntary tax, but it still represents marketing dollars extracted from the industry as a whole.

If these monies are spent effectively then can be a good value for the industry.

OTOH if these monies are not well spent, and if the very presence of DEMA effectively thwarts alternatives, then DEMA is just another cost with little or no return.

Tobin

Thank you for the additional information. I do see where the "tax" concept comes into play. I personally would be very interested in seeing more regional shows. I'll be at the Northwest Dive & Travel Expo and think that is a prime example of what we could be doing. I was thinking of going to Our World Underwater, but am interested mostly in sharing what knowledge I have about marketing and their speaker topics seem completely geared towards divers, not professionals. We need that, but it's not in my budget to attend if I can't reach the people I'm looking to reach.

I've been fairly involved in trade shows in my current day job industry, so I have some ideas floating around that may apply to SCUBA as well.

Where was the money spent? Is there a public accounting available? What are the staff paid? What projects where funded?

Unfortunately, public accounting isn't available, the dive center didn't really require much of us in that regard, and I didn't know better at the time. And to be clear, I'm only talking about marketing, not costs of doing business, so dive instruction staff pay would fall under cost of doing business whereas if I paid someone to maintain my web site, that would be marketing dollars.

Here's a basic run-down of what I'm doing (and consulting with a few others to do):

• Web Site Hosting: $4.95/month. Reach new divers who are searching for activities, streamline new student process by explaining pre-reqs, keep existing customers informed about sales/trips/club meetings/etc.
• One time $87 for the best SEO site building software available
• $0 to get top listing in Google via their Local Business Center
• $0 for phone service via Google Voice
• $0 for enterprise-class email marketing to up to 500 of my top customers (if 500 people can't keep me afloat, I'm doing something wrong)
• $0 spent on Twitter pulling in adventure-sport interested people in my local area and getting other locals interested
• $0 organizing unofficial meetups for locals to hang out on a monthly basis
• $30-60/month advertising on Facebook to a very finely tuned target market (this is the one spot I could go over $100 if I had spare money to spend, but $30-60 is very effective)

As for projects, I only staffed people who truly loved the sport. So they (and I) gave talks at the aquarium before/after their volunteer shifts, they/I go to local schools to educate kids about the ocean, volunteer at the zoo. In the future, I plan to help organize more non-profit events, which only costs time, but the returns are immense.

Staff is paid for teaching. They understand that any marketing they do of the classes means more students which means more pay. For my new teaching ventures, I'm not 100% sure what pay will be since I don't have all of my shop affiliations worked out. I'm not at a point in my life where I want to store 30+ sets of gear to teach with, so a shop affiliation is necessary.

If I didn't answer your questions in the way you were hoping, please let me know and I'll do my best to clarify. I won't be teaching all of my lessons here though, that's what the site is for

 

[Thalassamania]

"Where was the money spent? Is there a public accounting available? What are the staff paid? What projects where funded?" Sorry, I was referring to DEMA.

 

[The Chairman]

Well, Patrick Hammer has pulled his support according to DNW.