Uwatec versus Suunto

[leadweight]

I don't know how much faith to put in this, but a salesman at a local Scubapro dealer said Uwatec had already addressed the problem of level stop information overwriting no stop limits, but the revised units will not be out for at least 6 or 8 months. The delay is to allow sales of existing inventory.

 

[caveseeker7]

This is for the people who answered the post rather than the rude guy who started it. The German dive mag 'unterwasser' tested 9 computers, among them 2 Suuntos (Cobra/Vytec) as well as two Uwatec (SmartPro/Com). Both Suuntos gave the same info, as did the two Uwatecs. (Which is a shame, I wish they had tested the Vytec on its RGBM50 setting to show the difference).

The first set of dives were two dives to 20m for 30 minutes with an 1 hour surface interval.
1. dive: Suuntos-NDL 11 min (of 38 min), 3 min safety stop
Uwatecs-NDL 8 min (of 38 min), (no safety stop shown)

2. dive: Suuntos- (NDL 0 of 28 min) 3m 3 min + 3 min safety stop = 6 min total
Uwatecs- (NDL 0 of 32 min) 3m 1min

The2nd set of dives were two dives to 40m for 15 minutes with an 1 hour surface interval.
1. dive: Suuntos- (NDL 0 of 6 min) 3m 3 min + 3 min safety stop = 6 min total
Uwatecs- (0 of8 min) 3m 5 min

2. dive: Suuntos- (NDL 0 of 5 min) 3m 24 min
Uwatecs- (NDL 0 of 4 min)9m 1 min, 6m 4 min, 3m 15 min = 20 min total

As published in 'unterwasser scuba guide 2003'.

I edited in the NDL times shown when reaching target depth and when leaving it.

 

[leadweight]

Nice data Caveseeker.

Looks like the differences are not as gross as the graphs in Roadales would suggest. Anything else interesting in there like data from other popular computers or editorial conclusions? How about your conclusions. No flames from me, I promise.

 

[caveseeker7]

No problem, leadweight.
Here the rest of the tested computers and data.
As this is a German test, some of the units are sold under different names as they are in the US, as well as having importers names rather than manufacturers, though. They all look familiar in the pics, but I don't know who actually builds some of them.

Here it goes:
Beuchat CX 2000
Dive 1/1: NDL 8 min (of 46 min - just saw that, edited into the 1st post)
Dive1/2: NDL 6 min (of 34 min), no deco on either dive
Dive2/1: NDL 0 min (of 8 min), 3min @ 6m, 6 min @ 3m, 9min total
Dive 2/2: NDL 0min (of 7 min), 10 min @ 6m, 128(!)min @ 3m, 138 min total
(They didn't know where the long deco on the last dive came from ...)

Cressi Sub Archimede
Dive 1/1: NDL 7 min (of 37 min), 3min safety stop
Dive1/2: NDL 0 min (of 25 min), 6min @ 3m
Dive2/1: NDL 0 min (of 8 min), 1min @ 6m, 5 min @ 3m, 6min total
Dive 2/2: NDL 0min (of 7 min), 1 min @ 6m, 21min @ 3m, 22 min total

Seac Sub Aqua Lab (looks like OMS & Dive Rite single mix nitrox)
Dive 1/1: NDL 8 min (of 37 min)
Dive1/2: NDL 0 min (of 29 min), 5min @ 3m
Dive2/1: NDL 0 min (of 8 min), 1min @ 6m, 5 min @ 3m, 6min total
Dive 2/2: NDL 0 min(of 7 min), 1 min @ 6m, 18min @ 3m, 19 min total

Seaman Sub Atmos II
Dive 1/1: NDL 18 min (of 44 min)
Dive1/2: NDL 7 min (of 38 min)
Dive2/1: NDL 0 min (of 9 min), 2 min @ 3m
Dive 2/2: NDL 0 min(of 3 min), 11 min @ 6m, 26min @ 3m, 37 min total

AP Valve Nexus
Dive 1/1: NDL 15 min (of 46 min)
Dive1/2: NDL 7 min (of 37 min)
Dive2/1: NDL 0 min (of 7 min), 1 min @ 4m(!), 3 min @ 3m, total 4 min
Dive 2/2: NDL 0 min(of 3 min), 8min @ 3m
(They called this one 'borderline', the Nexus can calculate FO2 and PO2.
APV send a 2nd computer that tested more 'normal' when used in FO2 mode.
'unterwasser' published it in a later issue which I read but don't have anymore)

All of that is just the actual test data. Subjective stuff, everything from the manuals to wristbands(when applicable) to display covers was noted. The Suuntos and Uwatecs pretty much scored high(est) in all categories. The Nexus, Aqualab and CX2000 didn't do so well in those areas. Archimede and Atmos came in the middle, with the Atmos behind.

For me, it would be either Suunto or Uwatec. Tough call. The deco models are close enough for rec diving. Still got my old Aladin Air console around somewhere, first dive computer I ever bought. I like the Uwatec display, second only to the HS/Abyss Explorer. Like Uwatec accent display in % rather than color markings. Can't stand it that you can't change all settings without PC (I use Mac), the memo mouse, the metal contacts, the temperature calculation (I dive dry), and the battery replacemant issue. Still, I'd probably go with an Air ZO2 again if it came down to those maufacturers. DeltaP or HS if not (they are "modular" Nitrox/Trimix/OC/SCR/CCR, whatever you might want down the road, deco models are upgradable, O2 sensors available, and the VR3 takes all kinds of batteries and is build like a brick on top of that )

 

[leadweight]

Thanks for the additional info.

The tests above reflect the willingness of European divers to push past the no stop limits on what would otherwise be recreational dives. Diver magazine also tests computers past the no stop limit. Needless to say, Rodales does not.

Computers made by Polar, of which the Buddy is one, are often viewed with some suspicion because they are unusually liberal on repetitive dives. They do have a conservative mode, but I believe it chops the NDL time down severely on the first dive.

Data on the Atmos II is new info. I checked the Seaman website and it is the same computer as the Aeris Atmos II. Generous no stop limits but they flip out if taken beyond those limits. No wonder Diver magazine does not like Aeris/Oceanic computers and other models manufactured by Pelagic Instruments.

I am close to your mind set. It is really between Uwatec and Suunto for me. Suunto has a nicer feature set, but is a bit on the conservative side. Uwatec offers very good construction, is more liberal but is limited on features. As I have mentioned above, The Pro Ultra looks like a better deal than the Smart Pro to me, but you may see it differently.

 

[SMKChef]

If Rodale's or some other magazine would put as much into their tests as this German Mag did? Then again, they would lose advertising dollars because they aren't pandering to the manufacturers.

 

[caveseeker7]

All the major brands over here are sold over there, too. Yet the manufacturers buy ads in the German mags, too. It's just a different market, I guess. In Germany Scubapro for example sells 'tech' equipment like reels, and even sponsors a pretty well known tech diver. Both Aqualung and Scubapro have several drysuit models in the stores that they don't offer in the US. They cover a broader range of the market there than here. Same goes for the mags. In one issue you have a nice reef trip to the Maledives, a deep wreck in the Mediterrian Sea, an article on rebreathers and comparison test for masks or tropical booties. And all are usually well written. Here in the States you got magazines like Rodale's which for most part stay with the recreational market, and specialized magazines like immersed or Advanced Diver Magazine for those intrested in extended range. The latter by the way is my favorite.

 

[pufferfish]

Leadweight, I emailed Scubapro about them redesigning the SmartPro so as to allow the NDL time to remain on the display and they said that is just a bad rumour and asked me to post that here. Of course I guess from a business perspective I would not want to tell the world I was going to 'fix' a complaint if I still had stock of the old one on hand. Anyhow this is what they said from SP here in Canada but this came from Walt Willis in California.

"If you set your dive to have level stops, this means you are planning for a conservative dive......when you get your level stop, it is time to ascend...this renders
irrelevant the need for a deco time - the deco time goes away...the level stop takes the place of the deco time...the dive is over and its time to go up.

If you ignore the level stop and you want to keep diving, the computer will cascade down from Level (example) 3 to 2, and if you further ignore that, it will keep
cascading down until you reach the base level which is level zero. At this time, the computer will give you an indicator for a deco stop....no longer optional now it
is mandatory.

RULE OF THUMB : If you set the level it means you plan to dive that level.

Most important, please let your bulletin boards know that UWATEC has no plans to get rid of this superior function. Our UWATEC users love it."

 

[leadweight]

Pufferfish,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Scubapro. I would have to say their answer is what I would expect. All in all, I don't think the Smart Pro/Com is bad gear. Perhaps a bit on the expensive side as compared to the competition. If I had a Smart Pro (and I would not mind having one) I would not use the level feature. This is not because I think it is bad, but because I am of the non-expert opinion that the computation without levels is safe enough as I have been diving with a Uwatec Pro Nitrox for hundreds of dives without injury.

So, if anyone from Scubapro is out there reading this, please PM me with an offer to sell a Smart Pro for half price (or less) so I can write good things about it on Scubaboard every day. One of my friends just picked up a S600 MK25AF R380 set on a similar basis. I would not mind having one of those either.

Some of you will LOL, but I am serious.

 

[pufferfish]

Good luck with your request from SP. You never know. I came to the same conclusion, a non-expert one as well, that the level stops are not user friendly and more of a marketing device. Like yourself I have a five year old Uwatec Pro which has performed flawlessly and still has about 70% battery power left. When the Smart series of computers came out last year I thought like all good men that newer is better and so did a bit of research on them.

Not only did I find the NDL disappeared in the level stop mode but the bottom times became so restrictive I thought who would use the level stops except someone with a PFO. Your buddy would have to want to curtail his bottom time substantially or else you would be diving solo with your buddy forty feet below. In fact when I first discussed this with SP they just said after a few emails back and forth to just not use the level stops.
Fair enough but then if I upgraded I would only be getting the infrared download (nice feature but seems to cut into battery time) and water temp for a lot of extra $$. They haven't succeeded yet in separating me from my money and I still love my UWATEC Aladin Pro.

You should post a poll and ask how many Smart owners actually use the level stops on a regular basis? My informal survey of six divers I have met is zero. They all love the computer though. So I will stick with my good old trusty Model T until I truly see that newer is better.